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    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 9th Jun 17, 7:11 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Get ready for a Conservative/DUP coalition
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 17, 7:11 AM
    Get ready for a Conservative/DUP coalition 9th Jun 17 at 7:11 AM
    Well, don't, although it's been a very strange night.

    Nigel Dodds as chancellor? Gregory Campbell in defence?

    Something wrong when only hotheads win on both sides.

    Round here is a prime example - the eloquent, intelligent and accomplished Doug Beattie is rejected in favour of the invisible man, David Simpson. Has anyone ever heard him speak? An mp who's never on the radio for anything. How's that work?
    Or an mp who doesn't go to parliament, so no representative for the catholic population in Westminster. That can't be right.

    Incomprehensible.
Page 2
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Jun 17, 2:35 AM
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    qwert yuiop
    Completely unfair and inaccurate analysis. The DUP on the ground have a track record of getting things done, Simpson is a prime example of this. The audit done on Jim Shannon secured his membership of the MP club for as long as he wishes.


    It's Doug Beattie who is invisible and at times workshy although I will concede he is a good public speaker.


    Incidentally I don't always agree with the DUP on social issues but to say they are invisible on the ground is deceptive and suggesting their voters are ignoramuses.
    Originally posted by Cotta
    Is this the same Jim Shannon whose victory speech after the last election consisted of him advising dla claimants that he'd be there for them the next morning? The disabled who are now more numerous than after the First World War? Yea, vote for freeloading, folks. It's that work ethic thang we used to hear about, evidently.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Jun 17, 8:24 AM
    • 1,756 Posts
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    qwert yuiop
    homophobic fundamentalists. What could possibly go wrong!
    Originally posted by BigAl94
    A fair bit, since Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson is one of those Lebanese women, and is married to Jennifer Wilson, who may be from here.
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 10th Jun 17, 9:53 AM
    • 744 Posts
    • 399 Thanks
    x12yhp
    It has turned into a bit of a crazy circus. I think anyone debating that SF will not find it harder to achieve their aims is a bit short sighted. In the absence of westminister, they have to fight the DUP to achieve them. Now they have to fight both locally and nationally (and, as noted already, they don't actually take their seats).

    As far as good for NI - well that depends on how things go. This should be good news for NI. We finally have our majority party with power at a national level. Unfortunately, the nature of NI politics means that our majority party is slightly crazy. So we are left having to hope that the tories give time to the sensible requests and push any crazy stuff (which ultimately won't be real benefit to everyone) to being something for the executive to debate.

    From a personal perspective I find the outcome disappointing. I would be an alliance supporter. I make no secret from the fact that I spent my teenage years hiding from the world following a republican attack which caught me at it's core - I find attempts to forgive these sort of events very hard to swallow and thus SF (despite the good done in recent years) very hard to support beyond an issue by issue basis. The DUP have too many ties to similar extremism and I find it hard not to see them as the mirror image of SF. When you throw in things like their LGBT perspective, I find it similarly hard to support them. When I talk with people, they seem somewhat closed to these things - to many they simply do not matter as it is a game of protestants and catholics.

    A minor aside is that I don't know that many people appreciate that the SF westminister stance. I know that my in-laws are/were unaware that they did not actually take their seats or take any part in westminister votes/matters. If they are so, then I have to suspect that others are the same.
    Always overestimating...
    • BigAl94
    • By BigAl94 10th Jun 17, 10:10 AM
    • 1,571 Posts
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    BigAl94
    The one possible positive out of all this is that the DUP will now come under intense scrutiny by the national press who didn't care about them before. So for as long as this alliance lasts (which will only be a few months in my opinion) they will be under the microscope.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 10th Jun 17, 10:34 AM
    • 5,703 Posts
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    GwylimT
    Good Friday agreement?

    The DUP campaign was also heavily based on not bowing down to the conservatives!
    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 10th Jun 17, 11:44 AM
    • 240 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    CEON44
    All the talk is of what DUP will ask for. Their "demands" are expected to be high. But my opinion is they would be better to just pledge support with no conditions. this would serve them better in the long run. As said before, Teresa May has only a very short time, no way can she survive long term. So getting bogged down with DUP wont help anyone. By just pledging support only now the DUP could be then well regarded when the dust has settled and a new PM is in situ.
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Jun 17, 3:41 PM
    • 14,991 Posts
    • 8,429 Thanks
    motorguy

    By just pledging support only now the DUP could be then well regarded
    Originally posted by CEON44
    I dont think any political party here looks further ahead than the end of their nose.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • rolo1
    • By rolo1 10th Jun 17, 3:44 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 238 Thanks
    rolo1
    All the talk is of what DUP will ask for. Their "demands" are expected to be high. But my opinion is they would be better to just pledge support with no conditions. this would serve them better in the long run. As said before, Teresa May has only a very short time, no way can she survive long term. So getting bogged down with DUP wont help anyone. By just pledging support only now the DUP could be then well regarded when the dust has settled and a new PM is in situ.
    Originally posted by CEON44
    Dont think politicians think that way unfortunately
    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 10th Jun 17, 4:56 PM
    • 240 Posts
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    CEON44
    Probably right
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Jun 17, 8:02 PM
    • 1,756 Posts
    • 923 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    The one possible positive out of all this is that the DUP will now come under intense scrutiny by the national press who didn't care about them before. So for as long as this alliance lasts (which will only be a few months in my opinion) they will be under the microscope.
    Originally posted by BigAl94
    I suspect it may be even shorter. Another election before the end of the year? It happened in 1974 when there was a similarly inconclusive result.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 10th Jun 17, 8:13 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    Completely unfair and inaccurate analysis. The DUP on the ground have a track record of getting things done, Simpson is a prime example of this.

    Sorry. He's a buffoon

    Incidentally I don't always agree with the DUP on social issues but to say they are invisible on the ground is deceptive and suggesting their voters are ignoramuses.
    Originally posted by Cotta
    No. As I say, there's an obligation to vote for people you don't really agree with to provide an obstruction to those you really can't stand.

    There only are 15,000 free paisleyterians. That, citizens of Northern Ireland, is a stunning 1%, and anecdotally at least, there's a drift away from the sect. These people are grossly over represented in the DUP. A bit like the DUP now keeping Theresa in number 10.

    Their wee clergy training school at Laurencetown is gone. Pretty funny cheating scandal there a while back. It's a sin.
    • guiriman
    • By guiriman 10th Jun 17, 10:41 PM
    • 325 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    guiriman
    A fair bit, since Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson is one of those Lebanese women, and is married to Jennifer Wilson, who may be from here.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    Ruth Davidson describes the conservatives as "the party of equal marriage" when in fact more conservative MPs voted against it than for it when it was passed. A lot of media hysteria and spin going on at the minute.

    As for demands, it would make no sense for the DUP to demand anything in regard to GB, I expect them to focus on things like:

    - replacement cash for lost EU funding (eg farming subsidies)
    - lower APD for NI
    - corporation tax control

    The first two would be good for both communities, third is up for discussion but would be either good or bad for both. Playing a sectarian card wouldn't do them any good.
    • Cotta
    • By Cotta 11th Jun 17, 12:56 PM
    • 2,321 Posts
    • 943 Thanks
    Cotta
    They're not taking their seats.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    I was referring to the DUP.
    • MatthewAinsworth
    • By MatthewAinsworth 11th Jun 17, 12:57 PM
    • 2,621 Posts
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    MatthewAinsworth
    Whenever I hear the song "Galway girl" I now think of Arlene foster, may's Galway girl
    Last edited by MatthewAinsworth; 11-06-2017 at 1:03 PM.
    • CEON44
    • By CEON44 11th Jun 17, 1:40 PM
    • 240 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    CEON44
    No. As I say, there's an obligation to vote for people you don't really agree with to provide an obstruction to those you really can't stand.

    There only are 15,000 free paisleyterians. That, citizens of Northern Ireland, is a stunning 1%, and anecdotally at least, there's a drift away from the sect. These people are grossly over represented in the DUP. A bit like the DUP now keeping Theresa in number 10.

    Their wee clergy training school at Laurencetown is gone. Pretty funny cheating scandal there a while back. It's a sin.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    I agree with that. Im a DUP voter but Im not anti abortion, anti-LBGT or against gay marriage, far from it as I think most DUP voters are. But I feel myself cornered with the DUP my only real option. The UUP for whatever reason arent turning my head in their direction. By the way, not 1 candidate from any party called with me to ask for my vote. They know they dont need to bother as we are being channeled into 2 groups. Prod= DUP Catholic=SF
    I started out with nothing......And still have most of it left
    • MatthewAinsworth
    • By MatthewAinsworth 11th Jun 17, 1:54 PM
    • 2,621 Posts
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    MatthewAinsworth
    Am I right in thinking that Protestantism was set up just so Henry viii could remarry?
    • Mistral001
    • By Mistral001 11th Jun 17, 2:37 PM
    • 3,254 Posts
    • 2,498 Thanks
    Mistral001
    Am I right in thinking that Protestantism was set up just so Henry viii could remarry?
    Originally posted by MatthewAinsworth
    A bit off topic don't you think?

    PS. Martin Luther might dispute your assertion I should think if he was alive today.
    • MatthewAinsworth
    • By MatthewAinsworth 11th Jun 17, 2:45 PM
    • 2,621 Posts
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    MatthewAinsworth
    Luther, Lucifer, same thing...
    • saverbuyer
    • By saverbuyer 11th Jun 17, 3:21 PM
    • 2,395 Posts
    • 1,359 Thanks
    saverbuyer
    I agree with that. Im a DUP voter but Im not anti abortion, anti-LBGT or against gay marriage, far from it as I think most DUP voters are. But I feel myself cornered with the DUP my only real option. The UUP for whatever reason arent turning my head in their direction. By the way, not 1 candidate from any party called with me to ask for my vote. They know they dont need to bother as we are being channeled into 2 groups. Prod= DUP Catholic=SF
    Originally posted by CEON44
    Not trying to be funny but if you don't agree with any of the DUP UDA views above why would you even vote for them? What policy, unique to the DUP UDA attracts you to them? For me, the views listed above are typical, they are in their genetic makeup. You couldn't put a rolling paper between them and the other unionist parties on non-socio political views. I'm from a family of ex diehard DUPers but the corruption and scandal turned them. I can't for the life of me see why it hasn't turned all rational people. Unless it's fear of the demographics, but you can't stop the tide with intolerance, it just further motivates nationalists, converts soft catholic unionists and takes us closer to the 50% plus one.

    The border poll only has to be won once. Unionism has to continue to win forever. The DUP UDA isn't the kind of party to bring people with them. All they are doing now is consolidating in a sectarian headcount. If the moderates don't come back, this is all just a journey to a "lost" or "won" border poll.
    Last edited by saverbuyer; 11-06-2017 at 8:55 PM. Reason: Can't spell border
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 11th Jun 17, 3:50 PM
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    qwert yuiop
    ...and now the rest of the U.K. are going to think we're all like that. I'm not. You're not. That's what we have to represent us. Therefore something is wrong.
    Part of what's awry of course is the whole thing is a sectarian head count. Arlene ensured a fine turn out for Sinn Fein by slagging off people who learn Irish as crocodiles, supposedly. Jorry booffted the DUP by uving the Fankill bomber as a campaigner. It's been said before, but when you've enemies like these at election time , you don't need friends
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