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  • FIRST POST
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 8th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Erinandi
    Excel parking Cavendish Retail Park help
    • #1
    • 8th Jun 17, 9:18 PM
    Excel parking Cavendish Retail Park help 8th Jun 17 at 9:18 PM
    Sorry I know you all must be sick of newbies.....I have tried to read all sticky posts but am still getting confused and at the point of paying, but there is a little part of me that does not want to.

    So I got a notice to keeper. I know I did not drive the car that day as I was at work 75 miles away in Durham. I believe no ticket was bought. My first question is, is that an "unfair ticket"?

    I understand that I can say I was not driving but can they still pursue me as registered keeper? I can see that lots of cases been won at court level but what are the chances they will take me to court anyway. Excel seems to be reported here as better at winning etc

    After researching pofa it appears that excel may have gone against this? The parking happen on 9th May. Their issue date was 25th May. Does this mean that they can not hold me the keeper liable for driver?

    Tia
    Last edited by Erinandi; 08-06-2017 at 10:12 PM.
Page 2
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 23rd Aug 17, 9:14 PM
    • 14,938 Posts
    • 23,449 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Is there an address anywhere?
    Have you checked their website - 'Contact Us' page?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Aug 17, 9:45 PM
    • 50,680 Posts
    • 64,080 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Or looked at the bottom of their letters, where they always used to show their contact email.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 23rd Aug 17, 11:02 PM
    • 1,030 Posts
    • 2,048 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Thanks. Sorry for disappearing, we have just got back from holiday. I am certain that I said I was not the driver, will check but who should I email? Is there an address anywhere?
    Originally posted by Erinandi
    Get email from Excel website or Google it. If it's bw legal then it's enquiries@bwlegal.co.uk

    Have you received court papers yet?
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 24th Aug 17, 11:47 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Have no court papers. Last letter was from Excel. It was headed with "NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT PROCEEDINGS"

    The letter basically states that I had a failed appeal and did not then seek to appeal to IAS. The refers to Parking Eye vs Beavis case and that if I do not pay then I may get CCJ so pay us before.

    I took this to be the first of many threatening letters. I have nothing from BW or any other solicitor yet.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Aug 17, 1:20 AM
    • 50,680 Posts
    • 64,080 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Sounds like Excel might be about to issue a claim themselves, sometimes they don't use BW Legal.

    So now is the time to do this; IamEmanresu suggested it weeks ago:

    You could write back to them and point out they are mistaken as you were definitely not the driver which you can prove in court.

    Tell them they must not share your personal details with any third party apart from their solicitors, as doing so amounts to a breach of the Data Protection Act. Add that if they wish to test their assertion that you were driving they must do so at court within 14 days and if they do pass on your details to a third party you will ask the DVLA to sanction them - as they have done a number of times.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Include proof you were at work and were not the driver. Be really assertive, no ''please or thankyou'' this is not an 'appeal' stage - it is war!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 25th Aug 17, 2:06 AM
    • 1,057 Posts
    • 669 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    Do you have any other evidence relating to the day you were away ? Receipt for lunch, travel documents. CCTV from the site ?
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 25th Sep 17, 11:43 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    I got my first letter from BW legal a few weeks ago and I replied reminding them that I was not the driver etc. I submitted 2 witness statements which said I was at work that day (I was 80 miles away) and that I had a meeting at 2.30pm. The entry time was 15.01. I screen shot google maps which stated it would take 1hr 40 at least to get there from where I was. I also provided my milage claim and the authorisation email for my milage.

    Today I got another letter - the same old template letter!. It gives me 7 days to reply from the date! It was dated 20th sept but the post mark was 22nd. Was send second class and arrived today 25th. That has annoyed me even more!

    How do I reply to them? They have quoted Elliott V Loake - Can I say that this is irrelevant due to that being a criminal matter and this is civil? They are requesting details of driver. It was not me that was driving - I am guessing I am not legally bound to say who was driving and that is what Elliott v Loake is about?

    Thank you for being patient with me and guiding me through this.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Sep 17, 1:15 AM
    • 50,680 Posts
    • 64,080 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    How do I reply to them? They have quoted Elliott V Loake - Can I say that this is irrelevant due to that being a criminal matter and this is civil? They are requesting details of driver. It was not me that was driving - I am guessing I am not legally bound to say who was driving and that is what Elliott v Loake is about?
    Yes, you have the right idea and don't need a template. You can also search this forum for other Cavendish Retail Park threads and learn from what others did and how they won if small claims were commenced (because we do win).

    Ask for all photos taken on the day and a picture of the sign on the material date. The idea is to ask for a couple of reasonable pieces of evidence for their case, because they have no case and their lack of reply helps you later in any defence.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 26th Sep 17, 9:09 AM
    • 6,161 Posts
    • 7,874 Thanks
    beamerguy

    How do I reply to them? They have quoted Elliott V Loake - Can I say that this is irrelevant due to that being a criminal matter and this is civil? They are requesting details of driver. It was not me that was driving - I am guessing I am not legally bound to say who was driving and that is what Elliott v Loake is about?

    Thank you for being patient with me and guiding me through this.
    Originally posted by Erinandi
    Looks like the BWLegal people have Alzheimer’s/Dementia,
    forgetting so quickly Elliott V Loake and what the courts say

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672664&highlight=bwlegal
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 2nd Oct 17, 8:41 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Sigh!!!!!!!

    I replied to the last letter last week via email and then on Saturday I received a"final notice" from BW legal stating that I had not responded to them. That response was my second one....... The most recent letter quoted Parking Eye vs Beavis case. And went on to threaten ccj. Letter clearly set letter. Do I just forward my 2 responses?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • 50,680 Posts
    • 64,080 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    How about a response like the ones being discussed today in two other threads on here?

    They are from today so must be on page one, two or three (no links, I don't do links - I always want people to read more!). We hope and trust that newbies are reading other relevant threads all the time not just their own and the NEWBIES thread and odd links spoon-fed like crumbs.

    You need to read any other LBCCC threads (any parking firm); there are two today preparing a robust response about the 1st October change that has taken place now, re the pre-action protocol. Easy to search for, or look for.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 2nd Oct 17, 10:37 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Thanks. Have been reading Daniel San case. Are there relevant cases to me I can quote? I was not the driver of the car nor was I with the car on said date. Is it enough to ask for details under new protocol?

    Also how relevant is signage in my case? I was not there to enter into any contract?
    Last edited by Erinandi; 02-10-2017 at 10:59 PM.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 2nd Oct 17, 11:35 PM
    • 1,030 Posts
    • 2,048 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Are there relevant cases to me I can quote?
    Too many to list, but you could tell them that in the event of court proceedings you will refer to numerous cases where Excel claims have been dismissed on the basis of no pofa compliance = no keeper liability.

    In each case Excel's reliance on EvL was rejected by the judge as being an irrelevant criminal matter, and in many cases the rep was reprimanded for misrepresenting the facts of that case and it's bearing on civil matters.

    Equally Excel cannot rely on the irrelevant case of CPS vs AJH Films following the judgement in appeal case of Excel vs Smith where HHJ Smith found that there was no Employer>Employee / Principle>Agent relationship therefore that case did not apply.

    Add that you defence bundle will include the transcripts from Excel vs Lamoureux, VCS vs Quayle and, the aforementioned Excel vs Smith.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 11:36 PM
    • 50,680 Posts
    • 64,080 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Also how relevant is signage in my case? I was not there to enter into any contract
    Always very relevant, because a driver of your car WAS there, and Excel will argue, formed a contract and breached it. So you need to ask for all pictures of your car and the signs that they contend were there on that date.

    Is it enough to ask for details under new protocol?
    You can add more than that in your case; this is meant to be a chance to 'narrow the issues' so narrow them in your favour as well. Use it to tell them again that you were NOT the driver and they can make no assumption that you were...blah blah... POFA 2012 not adhered to...

    Even if you've already said it, say it again.

    A Judge will look at this correspondence in the end (probably) and you need to come across as an honest person who reasonably replied and asked for reasonable information you are entitled to receive in order to understand the alleged 'debt' (which isn't your liability but Excel don't just go away).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Erinandi
    • By Erinandi 5th Oct 17, 11:07 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Erinandi
    Just a quick one. When I sent my first response to BW I got an automatic reply. On my last 2 responses I have not had this. Is this normal?
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 6th Oct 17, 12:10 AM
    • 1,030 Posts
    • 2,048 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Just a quick one. When I sent my first response to BW I got an automatic reply. On my last 2 responses I have not had this. Is this normal?
    Originally posted by Erinandi
    I wouldn't worry about it. Did you use the same email? Did you include attachments which may be rejected by their server?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Oct 17, 6:24 AM
    • 1,555 Posts
    • 2,866 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    The BW Legal system requires more than a couple of emails to upset it.

    Try writing a letter attaching copies of the emails to them - with proof of posting. Include another letter warning them of an intended separate claim against their client for misusing personal data as BW Legal are failing to check the letters/emails sent to them.

    If you don't get a human at BW to read these, then the system grinds on.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Oct 17, 8:50 AM
    • 7,168 Posts
    • 6,208 Thanks
    The Deep
    They have quoted Elliott V Loake

    Surely this merits an award for CPR27.14.(2)(g) costs for your time and their unreasonable behaviour?

    They must be aware that E-V-L is a dead parrot. Their constant failure to succeed with it reminds me of Professor Einstein's definition of insanity.

    You could add their refusal to engage with you, ignoring caste iron proof that you were not the driver, and mentioning a CCJ.
    Last edited by The Deep; 06-10-2017 at 9:18 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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