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  • FIRST POST
    • fred246
    • By fred246 8th Jun 17, 11:08 AM
    • 847Posts
    • 458Thanks
    fred246
    My Car Experiments
    • #1
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:08 AM
    My Car Experiments 8th Jun 17 at 11:08 AM
    After a few years observing people and their cars I concluded:
    Cars are made by graduate engineers in fantastic factories to immense standards. OK they do engineer a few mistakes but generally a new car is in fantastic condition.
    They are sold and maintained by a network of people who are generally clueless.
    Taking a car for a service - it's a lottery if anything is done.
    Taking a car for a repair - equals collateral damage.
    So I take a new car. I look after it. Check tyre pressures and fluid levels. Service it to the schedule.
    If a component needs replacement I disassemble the car carefully, replace the component and then re-assemble it to 'as new' condition.
    I void the warranty because I don't want any garage messing with my car.
    So early on I pay for oil, filters etc and then as time goes on brake pads, discs, cambelts, exhausts.
    Very occasionally I replace an unexpected item like a sensor or a switch.
    The car is just like new year after year. Why wouldn't it be?
    The last one got to 17 years of faultless service before it rusted.
    My current one is at 13 years and 144K miles.
    I come on this forum and people are buying cars at 5 years plus and being told they've bought an old banger and they can't expect much.
    What's going on?
Page 2
    • fred246
    • By fred246 9th Jun 17, 4:45 PM
    • 847 Posts
    • 458 Thanks
    fred246
    I used to frequent scrapyards in the 1980s looking for parts. They used to put 3 cars in a pile and you took off your own spares. The cars then were really in a mess. Loads of rust. Looked really ready to scrap. It must be so different now. They don't let you get your own parts now of course. People must be scrapping cars in a really reasonable condition. Improvements in engineering don't seem to have translated into people keeping cars longer. People must be scrapping cars when minor repairs are needed. Maybe labour costs.
    • fred246
    • By fred246 9th Jun 17, 4:59 PM
    • 847 Posts
    • 458 Thanks
    fred246
    I think he wants to be outraged on the internet and is trying to drum up scenarios using generalisations, mistruths and exaggerations.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    The trade in value was from Motorpoint. I am always better selling my cars to private buyers who appreciate the effort I take looking after my car. I asked for a trade in value just in case I had a nice surprise. When he asked me how much is it worth I went on ebay typed in the year and model and then high to low on the search. £4k was highest at that time. They're having a laugh we'll give you £500 was his reply.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 9th Jun 17, 6:22 PM
    • 15,396 Posts
    • 8,791 Thanks
    motorguy
    I used to frequent scrapyards in the 1980s looking for parts. They used to put 3 cars in a pile and you took off your own spares. The cars then were really in a mess. Loads of rust. Looked really ready to scrap. It must be so different now. They don't let you get your own parts now of course. People must be scrapping cars in a really reasonable condition. Improvements in engineering don't seem to have translated into people keeping cars longer. People must be scrapping cars when minor repairs are needed. Maybe labour costs.
    Originally posted by fred246
    Its now the mechanicals and electricals that wear out, not the cars.

    A car with perfectly acceptable bodywork could be in a scrapyard for an ECU failure or a digital dash failure.

    Whos going to spend £3,000 on a car thats worth £1,000?

    Thats whats killing cars now.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 9th Jun 17, 6:23 PM
    • 15,396 Posts
    • 8,791 Thanks
    motorguy
    The trade in value was from Motorpoint. I am always better selling my cars to private buyers who appreciate the effort I take looking after my car. I asked for a trade in value just in case I had a nice surprise. When he asked me how much is it worth I went on ebay typed in the year and model and then high to low on the search. £4k was highest at that time. They're having a laugh we'll give you £500 was his reply.
    Originally posted by fred246
    So there were people asking £4,000 for your particular variants model and year and with 144,000 miles?

    From what i can tell your car is a 2004 VW of some sort? Curious what 2004 VW with 144,000 miles is worth £4K or are you being economical with the truth again?
    Last edited by motorguy; 09-06-2017 at 6:30 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Wig
    • By Wig 9th Jun 17, 8:30 PM
    • 13,521 Posts
    • 7,325 Thanks
    Wig
    Sorry, from the thread title I was hoping for a lot more interesting read.

    However, OP, if you are going to buy a new car, and service it yourself from the get-go therby voiding your warranty.... Isn't that a bit daft, because if you get a lemon, which has a serious ECU problem or something.. then you could run into difficulty....

    On that particular example, if I were you, I would argue that self servicing wouldhave no effect on the ECU, and therefore sue them to fix the ECU under warranty, but it's only my opinion.
    My latest discovery, LSAT test questions online, logical questions, fun to do. Find example and past tests online, start at the LSAC.org website.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jun 17, 9:47 PM
    • 15,099 Posts
    • 13,415 Thanks
    AdrianC
    From what i can tell your car is a 2004 VW of some sort? Curious what 2004 VW with 144,000 miles is worth £4K or are you being economical with the truth again?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    There are ten 2003-5 VWs on Autotrader with 125-150k miles, between £3500 and £4500.

    One Golf GTi, one Golf R32, and eight Touaregs.

    £500 px value on any of those would be a mickey-take.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 9th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    • 15,396 Posts
    • 8,791 Thanks
    motorguy
    There are ten 2003-5 VWs on Autotrader with 125-150k miles, between £3500 and £4500.

    One Golf GTi, one Golf R32, and eight Touaregs.

    £500 px value on any of those would be a mickey-take.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Its a 2004 1.9TDI, so not a GTI, R32 or a Touareg

    In 2005 I bought a 2004 car with VAG 1.9tdi 130PS ASZ PD engine (£10K discount from new). It had 10K on the clock
    Originally posted by fred246
    Maybe an Audi but either way, its yet another exaggeration by fred to try to prove a non existent point - not everyone wants to (or can) or can be bothered servicing and fully maintaining their own car from the cradle to the grave.

    If you want to then great - noone is arguing with that
    Last edited by motorguy; 09-06-2017 at 10:21 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • EdGasketTheSecond
    • By EdGasketTheSecond 9th Jun 17, 10:17 PM
    • 211 Posts
    • 109 Thanks
    EdGasketTheSecond
    After a few years observing people and their cars I concluded:
    Cars are made by graduate engineers in fantastic factories to immense standards. OK they do engineer a few mistakes but generally a new car is in fantastic condition.
    They are sold and maintained by a network of people who are generally clueless.
    Taking a car for a service - it's a lottery if anything is done.
    Taking a car for a repair - equals collateral damage.
    So I take a new car. I look after it. Check tyre pressures and fluid levels. Service it to the schedule.
    If a component needs replacement I disassemble the car carefully, replace the component and then re-assemble it to 'as new' condition.
    I void the warranty because I don't want any garage messing with my car.
    So early on I pay for oil, filters etc and then as time goes on brake pads, discs, cambelts, exhausts.
    Very occasionally I replace an unexpected item like a sensor or a switch.
    The car is just like new year after year. Why wouldn't it be?
    The last one got to 17 years of faultless service before it rusted.
    My current one is at 13 years and 144K miles.
    I come on this forum and people are buying cars at 5 years plus and being told they've bought an old banger and they can't expect much.
    What's going on?
    Originally posted by fred246
    You are buying new and losing a lot of money in depreciation. Instead use your skills to buy a good 7 to 10 year old car and keep it going for another 10 years like I do. That's real money saving.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jun 17, 10:20 PM
    • 15,099 Posts
    • 13,415 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Its a 2004 1.9TDI, so not a GTI, R32 or a Touareg

    Maybe an Audi but either way, its yet another exaggeration by fred to try to prove a non existent point.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Strong for an A4, but not unfeasibly so.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 10th Jun 17, 6:40 AM
    • 12,762 Posts
    • 16,942 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Are most car plants staffed by graduate engineers on the shop floor now?


    Maybe that's just the effect of qualification inflation and the majority are graduates of media engineering.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    Jaguar Land Rover have a graduate programme for shop floor workers. They get paid to get an engineering degree.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 10th Jun 17, 9:09 AM
    • 15,396 Posts
    • 8,791 Thanks
    motorguy
    Strong for an A4, but not unfeasibly so.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    It would be, but back to the original point, theres no way dealers are buying cars @ £500 and selling them for £4K.

    And as the sales guy said you'd be nuts to think with 144,000 miles its going to sell for £4,000 (irrespective of what one or two people might be asking)
    Last edited by motorguy; 10-06-2017 at 9:32 AM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Jun 17, 4:56 PM
    • 15,099 Posts
    • 13,415 Thanks
    AdrianC
    It would be, but back to the original point, theres no way dealers are buying cars @ £500 and selling them for £4K.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Oh, indeed. The "mickey-take" comment still applies.
    • fred246
    • By fred246 11th Jun 17, 8:03 AM
    • 847 Posts
    • 458 Thanks
    fred246
    Motor traders as with other traders buy low and sell high. There is no limit on how low they will go if they think they can get a deal and no limit on how high they will go if they get a deal. How can you tell if a motor trader is telling lies? His lips are moving! The problem is that some people trust motor traders. They are used to people having to tell the truth. Most areas of life are now regulated. A professional has to tell the truth or they lose their jobs. People in the motor trade pretend to be professionals. They aren't.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jun 17, 10:33 AM
    • 1,377 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Traders will always try to get the lowest costs in order to make a profit, but if they are serious about buying, then they will make a reasonable offer minus a little bit, just like many customers will do. I suspect the salesman figured you weren't really going to trade in the car and so made a flippant offer since he knew he wouldn't be able to match the 4k you reckoned you could get.

    You've made more generalisations. Not all car sales people are lying just to get a sale. They won't get commission unless the sale sticks. You'll find unprofessional people in all walks of life and in all lines of work. Some get caught out, some don't. But that doesn't mean that everyone is at it. Believe it or not many sales people want repeat custom or referrals. Some years ago I was one of them.

    I would tell people if a product was something they didn't need. So I lost the custom from that person, but got several people on referral. I don't think that I am especially philanthropic. I just have common sense. And a returned product means that I have wasted effort.
    • fred246
    • By fred246 12th Jun 17, 9:34 AM
    • 847 Posts
    • 458 Thanks
    fred246
    You are buying new and losing a lot of money in depreciation. Instead use your skills to buy a good 7 to 10 year old car and keep it going for another 10 years like I do. That's real money saving.
    Originally posted by EdGasketTheSecond
    I know you are right. The whole point of what I am doing is to keep it away from garages so you know it is always in factory condition. I remember the 17 year old car that I had needed a new exhaust. I was checking the website for the part numbers and a colleague looked over my shoulder. "Fitting your own exhaust. Don't be daft just take it to a fast fit place." I knew it was a 3 section exhaust with 6 mountings. I took it to the fast fit place. The fitter walked past me with the exhaust mumbling "I get all the great jobs". I watched him as he blowtorched round it and bent it in 3 places. He then hammered it a bit. After a while he told me to pay. I asked to take a look. He had removed a massive exhaust and silencer and the new one was tiny. Narrow pipe with tiny silencer. The whole thing hung on one mounting. One of the fitters said "you're thinking of the diesel mate!". One of those stupid lies that really doesn't work on me. After a big fight in the managers office they removed everything and I drove off with no exhaust. The manager admitted the exhaust was not for my car but they thought they could 'modify' it to work. I then fitted the correct one and the car was back to factory condition.
    The fast fit exhaust would have rattled as I drove. Surely it must affect the cars performance narrowing the exhaust pipe?
    What would have happened to my car long term? The fast fit place would never have admitted what they had done and fit the correct one. Would another garage tell me I needed a new exhaust because the last one had botched the whole job? One visit to a garage can do a lot of damage to a car.
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