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  • FIRST POST
    • illusionek
    • By illusionek 8th Jun 17, 10:24 AM
    • 94Posts
    • 19Thanks
    illusionek
    Worcester boiler - 0 pressure
    • #1
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:24 AM
    Worcester boiler - 0 pressure 8th Jun 17 at 10:24 AM
    Hello

    I have just moved this week to my first house and I am at a loss when it comes to my boiler, so I hope someone could help me out.

    My boiler is Worcester Greenstar 24i Junior. Not sure how old if I was to guess probably 7-8yrs.

    When I moved in the pressure gauge was at about 1 bar, right at the border between red and green and Central Heating was not on. It stayed like this for the first couple days.

    Then I put CH on last night and the pressure increased to about 3 (bored of red/green again) bars when working, which I believe is also fine. However I noticed that the pressure dropped right to 0 within about 90 min since switching off CH.

    The hot water seems to be fine even with 0 pressure and I was very surprised that CH is also working when I put it on this morning. The pressure increases to 3 again when working and dropping to 0 within 90min when CH is off.

    I am at complete loss here as I was under impression there should be no hot water or heating with 0 bar. Also do not understand that sudden drop all seemed to be working fine before I put CH on for the first time. I cannot see any leaks or anything explaining explaining this.

    The other thing is I cannot re-pressurise the boiler as the tap/handle seems to be stuck, I cannot turn it. I think I do all correctly as I followed below link on Worcester website. So I am not sure if this is a separate or connected issue.

    However even if I could re-pressurise then potentially pressure would go way above 3 bars if now goes from 0 to 3 when working.


    https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/support/troubleshooting/faqs/home-heating-faqs/how-often-should-i-need-to-top-up-the-pressure-in-the-heating-system
Page 1
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 8th Jun 17, 10:33 AM
    • 4,389 Posts
    • 3,235 Thanks
    glentoran99
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:33 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:33 AM
    chances are you have a leak somewhere
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 8th Jun 17, 10:37 AM
    • 312 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:37 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:37 AM
    Your expansion vessel needs checking, suspect it's flat and that's why the pressure went to 3 with the heating on, when it went to 3 in probably starting discharging out the pressure relief pipework, a small copper pipe sticking outside somewhere.
    • illusionek
    • By illusionek 8th Jun 17, 10:39 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    illusionek
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:39 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:39 AM
    I am new to the whole subject so may be asking silly questions, but I would think pressure would be at 0 when I moved in rather than dropping to 0 after I used CH for the first time? Also how is it possible that the boiler still provides CH and hot water at 0 bar? I was under impression I would need to re-pressurise first?

    Also finally how do I go about finding a leak? Boiler cupboard is fine and I could not see anything around radiators. Also no stains appearing on ceilings and cannot see any water gathering outside of the property.
    • illusionek
    • By illusionek 8th Jun 17, 10:43 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    illusionek
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:43 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 17, 10:43 AM
    Alex1983 Your expansion vessel needs checking, suspect it's flat and that's why the pressure went to 3 with the heating on, when it went to 3 in probably starting discharging out the pressure relief pipework, a small copper pipe sticking outside somewhere.
    Is it something I can do myself or need to get a plumber? If DIY what exactly do I need to do?
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 8th Jun 17, 11:10 AM
    • 312 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Alex1983
    • #6
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:10 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:10 AM
    Your boiler has no low pressure cut off so it will work on 0 but risks it overheating and been noisy.

    If the boiler has dumped water outside though the pressure relief pipe then it's likely that the pressure relief valve will need replacing, which is a very fiddly job on your boiler. You need a gas safe person to sort this.

    If you can see the pipe outside then you could tape a small sandwich bag to it and put the heating on for a while and see if any water collects in it, this will prove your fault.
    • illusionek
    • By illusionek 8th Jun 17, 11:16 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    illusionek
    • #7
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:16 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Jun 17, 11:16 AM
    I can see the relief pipe but boiler is on the first floor in one of the bedroom, so I am not able to access the pipe even on the ladder. I checked outside and no obvious signs of water.

    I signed up to a service plan with Worcester but it does not kick in until next month, if there is a risk of overheating then I guess I cannot wait that long and I need to fork out for a plumber to come in and have a look otherwise I may need a new boiler?
    • fred246
    • By fred246 8th Jun 17, 12:05 PM
    • 795 Posts
    • 442 Thanks
    fred246
    • #8
    • 8th Jun 17, 12:05 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jun 17, 12:05 PM
    I had a leak on my system for years that no-one could work out. Then one day eleven years ago I spotted some water under the boiler. I was covered by Domestic & General so they sent out a CORGI engineer. He diagnosed a leak from my heat exchanger and said the boiler was beyond economic repair. They quoted me £2k for a new boiler. Domestic & General said it was leaking before I took cover so refused to pay anything. I took a look and could see the leak from the junction of the heat exchanger and the pipe leading to it. I fixed it with PTFE tape costing 99p. The boiler is still working well.
    • illusionek
    • By illusionek 8th Jun 17, 12:14 PM
    • 94 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    illusionek
    • #9
    • 8th Jun 17, 12:14 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jun 17, 12:14 PM
    I guess as a minimum I should at least re-pressurise to avoid overheating. So how do I overcome this problem?

    Internal Filling Key is inserted and turned to open position but I am not able to turn the white tap/valve (not sure how to call it). It is completely stuck. I am afraid to apply too much force since it is a small plastic thing and I am concerned I can damage it. I tried to turn it anti-clockwise and clock-wise and it simply does not turn at all.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 8th Jun 17, 4:42 PM
    • 1,866 Posts
    • 937 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Suggest you find a local heating engineer (one who is Gas Safe registered, or whichever is this week's controlling body and can also do plumbing work) who will then check/pump up your expansion vessel and replace the valves on your filling loop.
    • illusionek
    • By illusionek 8th Jun 17, 6:10 PM
    • 94 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    illusionek
    It sounds I may have no choice, any idea how much this pleasure may cost me? I live in Greater London.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 8th Jun 17, 8:01 PM
    • 2,257 Posts
    • 1,807 Thanks
    boliston
    Suggest you find a local heating engineer (one who is Gas Safe registered, or whichever is this week's controlling body and can also do plumbing work) who will then check/pump up your expansion vessel and replace the valves on your filling loop.
    Originally posted by Le_Kirk
    I have got a similar problem as I can only set the radiators to a low temp (warm not hot) as any higher and the pressure gauge goes into the red. Had my boiler about 12 years from new but does the expansion vessel normally "die" (and need expensive replacement) or can it be pumped up again? I have read you can use a bike pump.

    I never need "hot" radiators as my flat stays warm even in cold weather but it would be nice not to have to limit the radiator temp.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 8th Jun 17, 8:52 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Alex1983
    I have got a similar problem as I can only set the radiators to a low temp (warm not hot) as any higher and the pressure gauge goes into the red. Had my boiler about 12 years from new but does the expansion vessel normally "die" (and need expensive replacement) or can it be pumped up again? I have read you can use a bike pump.

    I never need "hot" radiators as my flat stays warm even in cold weather but it would be nice not to have to limit the radiator temp.
    Originally posted by boliston
    Your expansion vessel should be checked and recharged as necessary on a annual service. If yours is not split it can be recharged, if it's split then you'll need a replacement.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 10th Jun 17, 1:48 PM
    • 11,279 Posts
    • 6,267 Thanks
    Strider590
    Your expansion vessel needs checking, suspect it's flat and that's why the pressure went to 3 with the heating on, when it went to 3 in probably starting discharging out the pressure relief pipework, a small copper pipe sticking outside somewhere.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    This ^^

    They have a simple car/bike valve, which can leak over time.

    Simple job, find the valve, attach bicycle pump, pump to 1 bar and your sorted.

    You can do this yourself by removing the outer cover, you CANNOT open any part of the actual sealed area of the boiler (where all the gas stuff happens).
    Last edited by Strider590; 10-06-2017 at 1:51 PM.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 10th Jun 17, 2:30 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Alex1983
    This ^^

    They have a simple car/bike valve, which can leak over time.

    Simple job, find the valve, attach bicycle pump, pump to 1 bar and your sorted.

    You can do this yourself by removing the outer cover, you CANNOT open any part of the actual sealed area of the boiler (where all the gas stuff happens).
    Originally posted by Strider590
    This is NOT the correct way to recharge a expansion vessel. The system needs emptying of pressure and the drain off left open when recharging, the pressure needs inflating to the stated pressure on the existing expansion vessel, if you put to much in you will get the same problem. Leave it to a qualified person.
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 10th Jun 17, 2:55 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Alex1983
    Also removing the case on a lot of boilers, including all the Worcester greenstar range disturbs the combustion seal and needs doing by a gas safe registered engineer.
    • southcoastrgi
    • By southcoastrgi 11th Jun 17, 1:54 PM
    • 5,177 Posts
    • 3,002 Thanks
    southcoastrgi

    Simple job, find the valve, attach bicycle pump, pump to 1 bar and your sorted.

    You can do this yourself
    Originally posted by Strider590

    A little knowledge & all that
    I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.

    You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 11th Jun 17, 5:04 PM
    • 11,279 Posts
    • 6,267 Thanks
    Strider590
    This is NOT the correct way to recharge a expansion vessel. The system needs emptying of pressure and the drain off left open when recharging, the pressure needs inflating to the stated pressure on the existing expansion vessel, if you put to much in you will get the same problem. Leave it to a qualified person.
    Originally posted by Alex1983
    Done ok for me, worst that can happen is too much pressure, but then the system will blow off the excess through the safety valve (at around 3 bar)....

    Granted I should have said to fully discharge the expansion vessel first, fill the system to around 0.5bar and then pumped 1bar into the vessel again, simple maths, but that's all getting a bit complex.

    I've done a lot of work on my boiler, changing stats, changing the timer, repairing the control PCB, but I know that there are legal issues involved with going near the sealed areas, so I stay clear of those.

    Maybe there's some protectionism going on here, I totally get that, protecting ones income etc, revealing secrets/tips/tricks could affect income for people in that line of work, but it's also a money saving forum. Gas technicians up and down the country are hardly going to be affected by a forum like this, no matter how much traffic it receives.
    Last edited by Strider590; 11-06-2017 at 5:08 PM.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 11th Jun 17, 5:46 PM
    • 647 Posts
    • 420 Thanks
    Rubidium
    A little knowledge & all that
    Originally posted by southcoastrgi
    Total lack of knowledge, even after posting this load of rubbish!



    Done ok for me, worst that can happen is too much pressure, but then the system will blow off the excess through the safety valve (at around 3 bar)....

    Granted I should have said to fully discharge the expansion vessel first, fill the system to around 0.5bar and then pumped 1bar into the vessel again, simple maths, but that's all getting a bit complex.

    I've done a lot of work on my boiler, changing stats, changing the timer, repairing the control PCB, but I know that there are legal issues involved with going near the sealed areas, so I stay clear of those.

    Maybe there's some protectionism going on here, I totally get that, protecting ones income etc, revealing secrets/tips/tricks could affect income for people in that line of work, but it's also a money saving forum. Gas technicians up and down the country are hardly going to be affected by a forum like this, no matter how much traffic it receives.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    • Alex1983
    • By Alex1983 11th Jun 17, 5:54 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    Alex1983
    Strider590, I am fully qualified and I don't think you understand how to correctly recharge a expansion vessel, I don't think the correct way to do it is a secret and I'd happily explain how to as you've now suggested 2 incorrect ways of doing it.
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