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  • FIRST POST
    • janet278
    • By janet278 7th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 3Thanks
    janet278
    Getting a refund
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 17, 5:33 PM
    Getting a refund 7th Jun 17 at 5:33 PM
    Hi,
    I would be grateful for some advice. In May I paid an account for a friend. It was late at night and I did the payment online sitting in bed on my tablet. I couldn't have seen very well because instead of paying £89.66 I paid £8966. I contacted my bank the next day but it was too late - the payment had already gone through. I have a large overdraft on my account which I never use, and this must have been why it went through without a hitch. I contacted the company a few times and they said they would look into refunding me. Depending on who I spoke to they said it would take between 5 and 30 working days to do this. I don't have this in writing though and I still have not been repaid. I know that I can take this up with the financial ombudsman but I wondered if it was too soon to do this and if I could be reasonably expected to wait a certain length of time before doing so. I have searched online and can find lots of stories of overpaying credit cards etc. but nothing like what I have done. I surely can't be the only person ever to have done this - embarrassing as it is to admit! Has anything similar happened to you? Do you have any advice for me? Thanks
Page 2
    • oj29
    • By oj29 9th Jun 17, 2:27 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    oj29
    regardless to what that link says, the fact its he quotes what 1968 theft act states
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    If you read the link it might educate you to give better advice regarding issues like this in the future. The council wrongly credited her account with £52,000 of which she went on to spend £9,000 of it. She was then charged with dishonestly retaining wrongful credit which carries a sentence of up to 10 years’ imprisonment but she avoided a jail sentence.
    Oh and by the way, dishonestly retaining wrongful credit is covered under the 1968 Theft Act.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 9th Jun 17, 2:38 PM
    • 2,919 Posts
    • 3,560 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    If you read the link it might educate you to give better advice regarding issues like this in the future. The council wrongly credited her account with £52,000 of which she went on to spend £9,000 of it. She was then charged with dishonestly retaining wrongful credit which carries a sentence of up to 10 years’ imprisonment but she avoided a jail sentence.
    Oh and by the way, dishonestly retaining wrongful credit is covered under the 1968 Theft Act.
    Originally posted by oj29
    Yes, and I quoted the sections of the 1968 Act, what the article doesn't cover is HOW the money made its way to her account, without the full details of the case you cant apply its conclusions to anything.

    "Wrongly credited" is a defined term, we do not know how that credit met the definition, but it must have done. That does not mean every misplaced credit is "Wrongful" for the purposes of the Act
    • oj29
    • By oj29 9th Jun 17, 2:46 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    oj29
    Yes, and I quoted the sections of the 1968 Act, what the article doesn't cover is HOW the money made its way to her account, without the full details of the case you cant apply its conclusions to anything.

    "Wrongly credited" is a defined term, we do not know how that credit met the definition, but it must have done. That does not mean every misplaced credit is "Wrongful" for the purposes of the Act
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Please explain how that does not apply if the business in OP's case does not refund the amount?
    • angryparcel
    • By angryparcel 9th Jun 17, 2:51 PM
    • 910 Posts
    • 516 Thanks
    angryparcel
    "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Please explain how that does not apply if the business in OP's case does not refund the amount?
    Originally posted by oj29
    because they DID NOT dishonestly appropriates property.

    The OP gave them the funds (money) as it was a bank transfer.

    It is clear from your post about dirt on the carpet you don't know much about legal processes and how to get resolutions
    • oj29
    • By oj29 9th Jun 17, 2:59 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    oj29
    because they DID NOT dishonestly appropriates property.

    The OP gave them the funds (money) as it was a bank transfer.

    It is clear from your post about dirt on the carpet you don't know much about legal processes and how to get resolutions
    Originally posted by angryparcel
    If they do not return it, they will have dishonestly appropriated property because it does not belong to them and they would be taking ownership of property which clearly does not belong to them, as they have acknowledged.
    Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with 'Retaining wrongful credit'. The 1968 Theft act defines this as: "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it".

    It's clear from your other posts in this topic you don't know what you're talking about.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 9th Jun 17, 3:16 PM
    • 2,919 Posts
    • 3,560 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Please explain how that does not apply if the business in OP's case does not refund the amount?
    Originally posted by oj29
    you are not reading ALL of the words in your own posts

    "permanently depriving the other of it"

    There is NO implication in this case that the company is intending to PERMANENTLY depriving the OP of it, they are just taking their time, which they are entitled to do and in fact is advisable to do, to cover them from a money laundering point of view.
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 9th Jun 17, 3:19 PM
    • 2,919 Posts
    • 3,560 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    If they do not return it, they will have dishonestly appropriated property because it does not belong to them and they would be taking ownership of property which clearly does not belong to them, as they have acknowledged.
    Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with 'Retaining wrongful credit'. The 1968 Theft act defines this as: "A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it".

    It's clear from your other posts in this topic you don't know what you're talking about.
    Originally posted by oj29
    and you are confusing your offences.

    you would be charged with THEFT if you

    "dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly"

    you would be guilty of Dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit if—
    (a)a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect of which he has any right or interest;

    (b)he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and

    (c)he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstances to secure that the credit is cancelled.

    (2)References to a credit are to a credit of an amount of money.

    [F22(2A)A credit to an account is wrongful to the extent that it derives from—
    (a)theft;
    (b)blackmail;
    (c)fraud (contrary to section 1 of the Fraud Act 2006); or
    (d)stolen goods.]
    • oj29
    • By oj29 9th Jun 17, 4:33 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    oj29
    and you are confusing your offences.

    you would be charged with THEFT if you

    "dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly"

    you would be guilty of Dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit if—
    (a)a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect of which he has any right or interest;

    (b)he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and

    (c)he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstances to secure that the credit is cancelled.

    (2)References to a credit are to a credit of an amount of money.

    [F22(2A)A credit to an account is wrongful to the extent that it derives from—
    (a)theft;
    (b)blackmail;
    (c)fraud (contrary to section 1 of the Fraud Act 2006); or
    (d)stolen goods.]
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    Care to explain all these cases then?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595560/Make-hay-sun-shines-Family-defend-woman-went-spree-council-accidentally-gave-52-000.html

    http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/11822015.Youth_who_wrongly_kept___25_000_of_NHS_ca ncer_trust_s_money_given_year_prison_sentence/

    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/dishonest-woman-to-repay-9k-47053/

    http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/man-spent-pound-6k-account/story-26260342-detail/story.html

    All guilty of dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit.
    Also worth reading this: http://www.money.co.uk/guides/can-you-keep-money-accidentally-paid-into-your-bank-account.htm
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 10th Jun 17, 10:25 AM
    • 7,309 Posts
    • 5,276 Thanks
    pmduk
    ...I know that I can take this up with the financial ombudsman
    Originally posted by janet278

    Who were you going to take to the Financial Ombudsman? You can't take your bank as they carried out the instructions you gave them.


    The recipient is unlikely to be subject to the FO's jurisdiction.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Jun 17, 2:26 PM
    • 10,954 Posts
    • 8,221 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Who were you going to take to the Financial Ombudsman? You can't take your bank as they carried out the instructions you gave them.


    The recipient is unlikely to be subject to the FO's jurisdiction.
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Yes they can. Whether it will succeed or not is a different matter. But the ombudsman have previously upheld complaints where the customer input the wrong bank details while doing a transfer. The reason for upholding those complaints was that the customer had notified the bank quickly and had the bank acted quickly enough (by contacting the receiving bank), there was a chance the payment could have been stopped or recalled. If there was no chance of the bank recalling OP's payment at the time OP reported it to them, then its likely the claim will be rejected.

    However as I said previously, it could be more complex than that if OP went into their overdraft.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • lammy82
    • By lammy82 12th Jun 17, 11:13 PM
    • 216 Posts
    • 203 Thanks
    lammy82
    You are in a strong position, as you know exactly who the money was paid to, they do not deny having received it, and they have stated an intention to return the money to you.

    I suggest you keep the pressure on them with a phone call every few days and if they haven't given you a definite date to return the money within a week or so then follow up with a letter with all the details spelled out. A Letter Before Action would be the next step.
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