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  • FIRST POST
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 6th Jun 17, 12:37 PM
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    martinbuckley
    Train delay - who is responsible?
    • #1
    • 6th Jun 17, 12:37 PM
    Train delay - who is responsible? 6th Jun 17 at 12:37 PM
    On Sunday I travelled on the 1800 kings cross to Peterborough train which was due to arrive at 1843, before catching the 1855 Peterborough to Stamford train, due to arrive at 1905. The ticket was an advance with the train times and seat reservations printed on the ticket. I had not split the tickets.
    The virgin train from London was 14 minutes late arriving at Peterborough meaning I missed my designated connection and had to wait an hour for the next train from Peterborough to Stamford, which arrived at Stamford at 2011, some 66 minutes later than I should have done.
    I submitted a claim to virgin but they refused it as I was only delayed by 14 minutes on their train.
    Is this correct?
Page 1
    • heatherw_01
    • By heatherw_01 6th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    • 4,923 Posts
    • 3,571 Thanks
    heatherw_01
    • #2
    • 6th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Jun 17, 12:40 PM
    Virgin only refund for 30 mins or more delay
    https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/refunds

    The connecting train was not late
    I'm the Board Guide on Quick Grabbit, Freebies, Overseas Holidays & Travel Planning and the UK Holidays, Days Out & Entertainments boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 6th Jun 17, 1:28 PM
    • 18,650 Posts
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    wealdroam
    • #3
    • 6th Jun 17, 1:28 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Jun 17, 1:28 PM
    On Sunday I travelled on the 1800 kings cross to Peterborough train which was due to arrive at 1843, before catching the 1855 Peterborough to Stamford train, due to arrive at 1905. The ticket was an advance with the train times and seat reservations printed on the ticket. I had not split the tickets.
    The virgin train from London was 14 minutes late arriving at Peterborough meaning I missed my designated connection and had to wait an hour for the next train from Peterborough to Stamford, which arrived at Stamford at 2011, some 66 minutes later than I should have done.
    I submitted a claim to virgin but they refused it as I was only delayed by 14 minutes on their train.
    Is this correct?
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    No, that is not correct.

    Your journey was from London to Stamford.
    Your arrival at Stamford was over an hour late due to the Virgin East Coast train not running to time.

    Page 24 of The National Rail Conditions of Travel tell us that you a due a refund of at least 50% of the ticket price.
    Last edited by wealdroam; 22-06-2017 at 12:56 PM.
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 6th Jun 17, 7:11 PM
    • 7,150 Posts
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    daveyjp
    • #4
    • 6th Jun 17, 7:11 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Jun 17, 7:11 PM
    As long as you had sufficient connection time, the fact a ticket was sold demonstrates the time to be adequate, you have a valid claim.

    Press them and take further if no success.

    "What if I am delayed on a multi-leg journey?
    If you are travelling with more than one train operator and you experience a delay, it is important that you make your claim for compensation to the operator that caused the initial delay. It is important that you leave sufficient time to maintain connections (including crossing London connections). Compensation will only be paid for missed connections when enough time has been left to meet the connection and you hold a ‘through’ ticket that covers the entire journey."
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 6th Jun 17, 9:35 PM
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    martinbuckley
    • #5
    • 6th Jun 17, 9:35 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Jun 17, 9:35 PM
    Have you got a link for that quote, as it completely sums up the rationale behind Virgin being liable for the delay?
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 6th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    • 7,150 Posts
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    daveyjp
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 17, 10:01 PM
    Southern Railway Delay Repay information page.

    http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/customer-services/delay-repay/faq
    • surreysaver
    • By surreysaver 7th Jun 17, 2:27 PM
    • 2,342 Posts
    • 1,316 Thanks
    surreysaver
    • #7
    • 7th Jun 17, 2:27 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jun 17, 2:27 PM
    Virgin caused they delay. They are responsible.
    I consider myself to be a male feminist. Is that allowed?
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 9th Jun 17, 11:45 AM
    • 1,434 Posts
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    NBLondon
    • #8
    • 9th Jun 17, 11:45 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Jun 17, 11:45 AM
    Were there any Virgin staff at Peterborough you could complain to at the time?

    I ask because when Virgin West Coast did this to me and I arrived at Crewe late enough to miss a connection - their Customer Services folks at Crewe got me a taxi to my final destination (on their account) since that was cheaper than the delay repay. It would have been over an hour because of the wait for the next train.

    Anyway - I think you are entitled to challenge Virgin again - making clear you are referring to the whole journey and which connecting train you had to take.

    Their website states
    How does Delay Repay work?
    If you arrive at your destination late because a Virgin Trains East Coast service was cancelled or delayed, you can submit a claim.
    Their passenger charter uses the phrase "destination station". So as wealdroam says - that's Stamford, not Peterborough.
    This Be the Verse - Philip Larkin. The first line that everyone knows.
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 9th Jun 17, 8:47 PM
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    martinbuckley
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 8:47 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 8:47 PM
    I've sent it back to them and am awaiting a reply.
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 13th Jun 17, 4:56 PM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    yorkie2
    On Sunday I travelled on the 1800 kings cross to Peterborough train which was due to arrive at 1843, before catching the 1855 Peterborough to Stamford train, due to arrive at 1905. The ticket was an advance with the train times and seat reservations printed on the ticket. I had not split the tickets.
    The virgin train from London was 14 minutes late arriving at Peterborough meaning I missed my designated connection and had to wait an hour for the next train from Peterborough to Stamford, which arrived at Stamford at 2011, some 66 minutes later than I should have done.
    I submitted a claim to virgin but they refused it as I was only delayed by 14 minutes on their train.
    Is this correct?
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    You are entitled to Delay Repay for a delay of 60+ mins, from Virgin Trains EC.
    Virgin only refund for 30 mins or more delay
    https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/refunds

    The connecting train was not late
    Originally posted by heatherw_01
    You appear to be suggesting that a Delay Repay claim is invalid. If that is what you are saying, you are incorrect, but MSE won't do anything about incorrect info being posted here.

    martinbuckley - unfortunately that is a risk of using this forum for railway ticketing questions; there are some people here who post inaccurate/misleading information. Fortunately in this case everyone else gave out correct information.
    Last edited by yorkie2; 13-06-2017 at 5:01 PM.
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 14th Jun 17, 10:50 PM
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    martinbuckley
    Its somewhat ironic that the only person giving out incorrect/misleading information was the Board Guide!
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 16th Jun 17, 12:29 AM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    yorkie2
    Its somewhat ironic that the only person giving out incorrect/misleading information was the Board Guide!
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    I didn't notice that!

    I think it works on a similar basis to National Rail Enquiries (NRE); people answering questions are not required to have a decent standard of knowledge, and - when they are unsure - simply make a guess or even just make it up as they go along.
    • Mike1983
    • By Mike1983 18th Jun 17, 5:00 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mike1983
    If I can post a similar query....

    I travelled Sheffield - Doncaster (10 mins connection) Doncaster - London.

    SHF - DON on Transpenine was 22 mins late. However my train to London was also delayed leaving Doncaster by 26 mins meaning I was able to make the connection. The later Virgin train ended up arriving in London 35 mins late. The journeys were on separate tickets.

    I presume TP will say they got me to Doncaster within 30 mins and I was able to catch the train I intended therefore I should go to Virgin for my delay repay claim?

    Any advice before I submit much appreciated.

    Mike
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 19th Jun 17, 8:21 PM
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    • 693 Thanks
    martinbuckley
    I believe you have answered your own question. You had separate tickets, so your journey "contracts" were with two different TOC.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 19th Jun 17, 8:48 PM
    • 1,056 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    If the second train had been the last one of the day, then you would have been delayed several hours.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 19th Jun 17, 8:53 PM
    • 18,650 Posts
    • 15,552 Thanks
    wealdroam
    I believe you have answered your own question. You had separate tickets, so your journey "contracts" were with two different TOC.
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    Unfortunately, you too have made a mistake.

    Condition 14 of The National Rail Conditions of Travel tells us:
    ...you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.
    Therefore, in a similar manner to your journey, Mike1983's journey was from Sheffield to London and it is the time of his arrival at London that is significant in this context.

    As his arrival in London was over thirty minutes late, compensation is due.
    Compensation should be sought from Virgin Trains East Coast, as it was their train being late that caused the late arrival at Mike1983's destination.
    Last edited by wealdroam; 19-06-2017 at 8:58 PM.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 19th Jun 17, 9:16 PM
    • 1,056 Posts
    • 677 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    Sounds to me as if the regulations should have some worked examples.
    • surreysaver
    • By surreysaver 21st Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • 2,342 Posts
    • 1,316 Thanks
    surreysaver
    Virgin only refund for 30 mins or more delay
    https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/refunds

    The connecting train was not late
    Originally posted by heatherw_01
    But the OP couldn't make the connecting train because the Virgin train was late. So the OP had to catch the next train, resulting in a 66 minute delay. Therefore the OP was 66 minutes late because of a delay to Virgin's train, which meets the criteria for a 30 minute delay for compensation.
    I consider myself to be a male feminist. Is that allowed?
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 25th Jun 17, 11:08 AM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    yorkie2
    If I can post a similar query....

    I travelled Sheffield - Doncaster (10 mins connection) Doncaster - London.

    SHF - DON on Transpenine was 22 mins late. However my train to London was also delayed leaving Doncaster by 26 mins meaning I was able to make the connection. The later Virgin train ended up arriving in London 35 mins late. The journeys were on separate tickets.

    I presume TP will say they got me to Doncaster within 30 mins and I was able to catch the train I intended therefore I should go to Virgin for my delay repay claim?

    Any advice before I submit much appreciated.

    Mike
    Originally posted by Mike1983
    You have a valid claim. You are entitled to make one journey on two tickets.

    If you had missed the connection, and ended up on a later Virgin Trains service, I'd claim from TPE.

    As you made the connection, I would claim from Virgin Trains.

    Make sure your claim is concise and accurate, e.g. state your journey was from Sheffield to London and the total price of the tickets was £x, and so on. Take one photograph of all the tickets. I'd use the online form, so they can't lose it.
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 25th Jun 17, 11:09 AM
    • 1,343 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    yorkie2
    I believe you have answered your own question. You had separate tickets, so your journey "contracts" were with two different TOC.
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    Both contracts state that you may combine two or more tickets for one journey.
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