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    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 1st Jun 17, 5:27 PM
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    MSE Megan F
    0 WOW
    Fury as Ryanair seats passengers 'rows apart' unless they pay to sit together
    • #1
    • 1st Jun 17, 5:27 PM
    0 WOW
    Fury as Ryanair seats passengers 'rows apart' unless they pay to sit together 1st Jun 17 at 5:27 PM
    Irate passengers have accused Ryanair of routinely allocating groups of travellers seats in different rows in a bid to force them to pay to sit together, with some claiming the budget airline has changed its seating policy.....

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    • agarnett
    • By agarnett 8th Jun 17, 1:19 PM
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    agarnett
    But yes, it's rather pathetic that they refuse to admit the policy has changed when they've even changed their website to reflect it.
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    Can you show us evidence of the website change? I had a quick look on archive.org, but it looks like those clever people at Ryanair have spoofed the Wayback machine so that even though archive.org says it's grabbed 7 captured snapshots of one of the relevant Ryanair help pages they've managed to get every one on archive.org to say "We're sorry! We can't find the page you are looking for."
    • ChaskhaChaia
    • By ChaskhaChaia 8th Jun 17, 1:46 PM
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    ChaskhaChaia
    I'm flying with Ryanair next month, but fortunately I know exactly where I'm sitting because I'm travelling with a child and therefore we had mandatory seat reservations. I remember the days of the free for all seating. Come a long way since then!
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 8th Jun 17, 2:07 PM
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    jpsartre
    Can you show us evidence of the website change?
    Originally posted by agarnett
    I can't but the website used to say something to the effect that travel partners would be seated together unless a split-up couldn't be avoided.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 8th Jun 17, 2:46 PM
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    IAmWales
    I can't but the website used to say something to the effect that travel partners would be seated together unless a split-up couldn't be avoided.
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    This is all I can find. Are you referring to something else?

    Will families be split up if they do not wish to pay for allocated seating?

    We will endeavour to seat families together however this will not always be possible. If you want to be guaranteed seats together we recommend that seats are purchased.

    If you chose not to select and purchase a seat and have been randomly allocated seats which are not together please contact our call centre so that may try to assist you.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 8th Jun 17, 3:13 PM
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    jpsartre
    I don't remember the exact formulation but I'm guessing that's it. Is it still on the website somewhere?
    • agarnett
    • By agarnett 9th Jun 17, 11:28 AM
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    agarnett
    I don't remember the exact formulation but I'm guessing that's it. Is it still on the website somewhere?
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    If you search on Google for the string "randomly allocated seats which are not together" then interestingly one thread it throws up is this MSE thread from over three years ago when they first introduced allocated numbered seating (old regulars will remember when it was a free for all where we sat, every flight ):
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4878850

    There are a number of TripAdvisor threads containing the exact same words too. Event the Ryanair FanClub Forum quotes it, there are apparently no hits from Ryanair official website.

    I can almost see Michael O'Leary leaning over the shoulder of his webmaster having inserted the key and pressed the hide forever button:

    "You heard it hit ... , and I ... was never here"

    I always suspected Ryanair of hiding their tracks when they changed T&Cs and I think this is a very good example of where they have worked hard to do so.

    Thank goodness tRyanair don't have sufficient power yet to erase the truth from sites like MSE and TripAdvisor. I wonder how long it will last on their fan club site
    • RobRH
    • By RobRH 10th Jun 17, 9:24 PM
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    RobRH
    ryan air abuses passengers
    This is nothing unusual, as ryanair treats all its customers with derision and would do without seats if it could to pack more in! Rather than cheap airline it should be called "Cattle Class Transport" livestock gets treated better. This situation needs to be reported to the air safety authorities. Best advice is to avoid them completely, pass on the message over as wide an audience as possible and they will go bust, which will drive the message home! You can get a much better deal elsewhere, which includes customer service and passenger safety considerations.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 11th Jun 17, 3:58 PM
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    jpsartre
    Best advice is to avoid them completely, pass on the message over as wide an audience as possible and they will go bust
    Originally posted by RobRH
    Pure wishful thinking with no root in reality (wishful on your part that is, I wouldn't want them to go bust). If the last couple of decades have told of us anything it is that a substantial majority of passengers make their booking decision based on the price of the headline fare and everything else is a distant second. People are well aware of Ryanair's reputation and have been for years but use them regardless.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 11th Jun 17, 4:23 PM
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    buglawton
    Like others I know Ryanair has a 'tricksy' reputation when you book. (Having regularly booked on behalf of less IT-savvy relatives).

    But for a year or 2 I had found they'd 'cleaned up' their act, you paid what you saw and it had got a lot easier to step through a booking procedure without being tripped up.

    This latest seat placement thing however is a return to (bad) form.
    I really don't believe it'll help sales in the long run.

    Do you really have to now go through extra manual steps, selecting individual seats, to ensure you're seated next to a partner?
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 11th Jun 17, 10:11 PM
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    PeacefulWaters
    This is nothing unusual, as ryanair treats all its customers with derision and would do without seats if it could to pack more in! Rather than cheap airline it should be called "Cattle Class Transport" livestock gets treated better. This situation needs to be reported to the air safety authorities. Best advice is to avoid them completely, pass on the message over as wide an audience as possible and they will go bust, which will drive the message home! You can get a much better deal elsewhere, which includes customer service and passenger safety considerations.
    Originally posted by RobRH
    Don't be soft.
    • pjh104
    • By pjh104 12th Jun 17, 9:16 AM
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    pjh104
    Awfully cynical policy here.

    1. Checking in for STN-DUB flight my wife and I are allocated middle seats many rows apart. Not that bothered about the rows apart on a short flight, but the middle seats when all around are empty?

    2. Not sure where the £2.00 figure comes from. Checking various seat locations row 18+ shows between £4.00 and £10.00 per seat.

    3. Once you've entered the seat selection process it is difficult to find the way to abandon the selection and revert to random.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 12th Jun 17, 10:33 AM
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    jpsartre
    Not sure where the £2.00 figure comes from. Checking various seat locations row 18+ shows between £4.00 and £10.00 per seat.
    Originally posted by pjh104
    Price is route (and possibly time) dependent. Most routes start at £2.
    • agarnett
    • By agarnett 13th Jun 17, 12:20 AM
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    agarnett
    If the last couple of decades have told of us anything it is that a substantial majority of passengers make their booking decision based on the price of the headline fare and everything else is a distant second.
    Originally posted by jpsartre
    Yes you are exactly right, jpsartre, which is why OFT hauled them over the coals about adding fees at a later stage because it was an unfair commercial practice.

    Funnily enough, unfair commercial practices, of which we speak, are unlawful. (It's the law!)

    People are well aware of Ryanair's reputation and have been for years but use them regardless.
    Who is "people"?

    What is Ryanair's reputation over the years? Why do you think "people" use Ryanair (now and years back?)

    PS pjh104 is more right than you are about the prices typically charged for seat allocation.
    Last edited by agarnett; 13-06-2017 at 12:23 AM.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 13th Jun 17, 9:10 AM
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    jpsartre
    I didn't disagree with pjh104 about anything. Some routes start at
    £4, others £2.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 13th Jun 17, 5:42 PM
    • 7,004 Posts
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    buglawton
    Awfully cynical policy here.

    1. Checking in for STN-DUB flight my wife and I are allocated middle seats many rows apart. Not that bothered about the rows apart on a short flight, but the middle seats when all around are empty?

    2. Not sure where the £2.00 figure comes from. Checking various seat locations row 18+ shows between £4.00 and £10.00 per seat.

    3. Once you've entered the seat selection process it is difficult to find the way to abandon the selection and revert to random.
    Originally posted by pjh104
    Exactly right, the actual seat booking process to get adjacent placing is a real faff and very unwelcome on a mobile phone or small tablet. Ryanair are crackers and it Ladbrokes were laying odds, I'd bet that Ryanair will abandon this folly sooner rather than later.
    • agarnett
    • By agarnett 13th Jun 17, 5:53 PM
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    agarnett
    In between my last post and this, I flew on Ryanair.

    Half the passengers were talking about it. It's a bloody stupid policy currently and the person that dreamed it up should not be in aviation. It also raises doubts about the suitability of Ryanair's executive directors to be appropriate persons to run an airline.

    On my flight while I stood n the tarmac waiting to board, I witnessed a Swissport employee pull out a bag from the hold because he had happily noticed that it had been incorrectly labelled and should not fly. That was not before it had reached the hold. ANd when he showed it to his colleague, his colleague could not see what was wrong with it.

    The whole system now employed by Ryanair is wobbly again because of their policy of taking bags off passengers once they think they have reached overhead bin capacity via early boarding passengers.

    The type of labels they attach to those bags are ad hoc in nature and there is no 3 stage A check that I can ascertain which prevents a bag from flying without a passenger. There's only maybe a 1½ stage check and discrepancies rely upon only the most experienced of ramp agents to notice something isn't quite right if he or she is concentrating on reading the labels instead of just bunging the bags into the hold and counting them. Ramps and terminals at some airports are so busy at times that a passenger could mingle with international transfer passengers or simply arriving passengers. Items could change hands. If said item is then volunteered for a Ryanair hold without being checked in then there seems to me to be a risk that on a busy ramp a passenger could subsequently get lost on the ramp, miss the flight and exit the airport.

    Meanwhile the bag carrying goodness knows what to goodness knows where may be travelling without an "A checked" linked passenger.

    It still isn't so far back where I regularly experienced delayed 'doors closed' because multiple recounts of passengers needed to take place in the cabin due to discrepancies in the paperwork. IT isn't impressive when that happens. It shows a wobbly system exists.

    Messing with systems the way Ryanair does, introduces risk, and if they do it with the parts of the systems we can see, what are they messing with in aviation systems the public do not get to see?

    It is not funny. It is not business. It is not safe practice.

    Ryanair should be made to desist, and so should any other airline who thinks they always know better than those who devised systems and civilised safety-enhancing cultures that have lasted decades.

    I've praised Ryanair during the last 12 months, but not now.
    Last edited by agarnett; 13-06-2017 at 5:57 PM.
    • Forwandert
    • By Forwandert 13th Jun 17, 11:23 PM
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    Forwandert
    I travelled with Ryanair roughly a month ago with my wife, outbound both seated together, inbound we were on separate rows, wife was on the row behind me. We both had empty seats next to us but to be honest I think we where both happy to have the extra room to relax in.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 14th Jun 17, 12:35 AM
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    richardw
    agarnett, please raise your concerns with transport ministers in governments.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • agarnett
    • By agarnett 14th Jun 17, 9:04 AM
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    agarnett
    How many transport ministers would you like me to lobby, Richard? Will you join me in doing so?

    These things aren't unique to Ryanair or to UK or Eire, but if you are amongst the biggest and ugliest like Ryanair, people like me (and there are plenty of us about aren't there, Richard?) do notice and in my humble opinion, one of the best ways for it to be noted is for it to get discussed in various media.

    There are so many latent risks in all commercial endeavours and some of us can recognise them from small signs on the surface depending on our past experiences.

    Look at the terrible fire in West London last night.

    It is not the wonders of hindsight to say that should never have happened, as ex fireman MP Jim Fitzpatrick has been saying this morning.

    I personally cannot believe such a building was so vulnerable and I was trained as a fire surveyor in that area of town nearly forty years ago when there had been a number of awful fires in typical student bedsit accommodation in large converted four and five storey terraced houses which the fire brigade couldn't control. This was 24 storeys and purpose built.

    This morning's fire I just cannot get my head around. So much risk assessment and reporting expense is the norm these days - far more than when I was writing fire hazard survey reports, yet it has all failed.

    Architects, surveyors, and LFB inspectors must be feeling sick to the bottom of their stomachs. I sympathise with them as individuals, but it is those who have the power to allow (and indeed encourage) unsafe operational cultures to develop that we must point the finger at.

    We must all open our eyes and our mouths when we see things which demonstrate inappropriate risks are being taken. It makes inspectors and companies uncomfortable to read it about themselves or their industry, but I am sure they'd rather that than have to explain a catastrophic incident like that we are observing this morning.
    Last edited by agarnett; 14-06-2017 at 9:13 AM.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 14th Jun 17, 10:13 AM
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    richardw
    No it's a waste of time on here, write to the transport ministers.
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
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