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  • FIRST POST
    • offdutyninja17
    • By offdutyninja17 1st Jun 17, 12:56 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    offdutyninja17
    Victoria Station Manchester - APCOA Parking Fine
    • #1
    • 1st Jun 17, 12:56 PM
    Victoria Station Manchester - APCOA Parking Fine 1st Jun 17 at 12:56 PM
    Firstly I'd like to apologise for my lack of understanding of these kind of issues and procedures (I've already asked for advice concerning this parking fine and received really great help from you guys, I just SUCK at these kind of things).

    To put things simply, the vehicle reg was input incorrectly into the ticket machine and I've been advised:

    "use the blue text template appeal to apcoa from the NEWBIES sticky thread , as KEEPER
    then use a bylaws type popla appeal (as keeper)"

    &

    "forget the above, just appeal as KEEPER with the blue text appeal as instructed (you do not want to give anything away) - follow thr appeal instructions on the NTK"

    This is the 'blue text' template I found;

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,

    I just wanted to ask you guys if this is the correct template and if I need to amend it in any way, or shall I just add the fine reference number and sign it off with (for example) my name and address as keeper of the vehicle?

    Once again any advice would be a really big help to me.

    Many thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 1st Jun 17, 1:07 PM
    • 40,465 Posts
    • 80,850 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 1st Jun 17, 1:07 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Jun 17, 1:07 PM
    CRAPCOA are BPA members so you send the BPA template in blue you will find in the NEWBIES thread. It looks like the one you have quoted but nobody here will check it line by line.. Just make sure it is for BPA members and from the NEWBIES.

    You could carefully add that since byelaws apply at this location, it is non relevant land as defined by the POFA 2012, so there is no keeper liability. You have no prospect of success at PoPLA so you should cut your losses and cancel this now.

    If CRAPCOA reject it, then you make a PoPL A appeal based on byelaws and all the other relevant template appeal points from post 3 of the NEWBIES.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    • offdutyninja17
    • By offdutyninja17 1st Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    offdutyninja17
    • #3
    • 1st Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Jun 17, 1:22 PM
    Thanks for taking the time to respond, I've just checked that the template is the right one and it is for BPA members so I'm confident it's the right template, I would also like to add the advice about bylaws would this be ok?;

    "I would also like to add that since there are relevant bylaws that apply at this location, it is non relevant land as defined by the POFA 2012, therefore there is no liability towards the keeper. I believe you have no prospect of success at PoPLA, therefore I advise that this fine is cancelled immediately."

    I know I've more or less copied what you wrote word for word but honestly you've worded it pretty well, I'm guessing that since you haven't mentioned it, that I don't need to amend the template in any way?

    Once again HUGE thanks for taking the time to respond (and to my previous thread).
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    • 15,490 Posts
    • 24,201 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 1st Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Jun 17, 1:36 PM
    I've already asked for advice concerning this parking fine and received really great help from you guys, I just SUCK at these kind of things
    Why have you broken away from your original thread? We lose context and no one wants to be flicking back and forth between open tabs. You may also start getting further responses on your original thread, then things get complicated, possibly confused, and potentially expensive.

    "I would also like to add that since there are relevant bylaws that apply at this location, it is non relevant land as defined by the POFA 2012, therefore there is no liability towards the keeper. I believe you have no prospect of success at PoPLA, therefore I advise that this fine is cancelled immediately."
    It's not a 'fine'.

    As this is a bye-laws case, you need to delay communications to and from the PPC (and POPLA if it gets that far) until last possible moments to get as near as possible to the 6 months point after which the TOC cannot prosecute you under bye-laws - which is a criminal case. It likely won't come to this - no need to panic - but best play everything safe.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • offdutyninja17
    • By offdutyninja17 2nd Jun 17, 1:45 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    offdutyninja17
    • #5
    • 2nd Jun 17, 1:45 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Jun 17, 1:45 PM
    Why have you broken away from your original thread? We lose context and no one wants to be flicking back and forth between open tabs. You may also start getting further responses on your original thread, then things get complicated, possibly confused, and potentially expensive.


    It's not a 'fine'.

    As this is a bye-laws case, you need to delay communications to and from the PPC (and POPLA if it gets that far) until last possible moments to get as near as possible to the 6 months point after which the TOC cannot prosecute you under bye-laws - which is a criminal case. It likely won't come to this - no need to panic - but best play everything safe.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Apologies you're right I should have at least provided a link to the old post to save any confusion.

    I've read the terms on the back of the notice and it only provides an address for appeals to be sent to in the post - no mention of an e-mail address that appeals can be sent to electronically so I'll be posting a letter I've written up today to them;

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I would also like to add that since there are relevant bylaws that apply at this location, it is non relevant land as defined by the POFA 2012, therefore there is no liability towards the keeper. I believe you have no prospect of success at PoPLA, therefore I advise that this is cancelled immediately.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    I'll provide an update in this thread if any new information comes up, once again thanks to you guys for all of your advice and taking the time to help.
    • Teeniexx94
    • By Teeniexx94 12th Jul 17, 10:08 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Teeniexx94
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 10:08 PM
    Same thing has happened to me
    • #6
    • 12th Jul 17, 10:08 PM
    Hiya, Just wondering if sending that template letter has worked for you? Thanks!
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