Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 31st May 17, 7:20 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 13Thanks
    redwolve378
    PCN for Berry Head, Brixham
    • #1
    • 31st May 17, 7:20 PM
    PCN for Berry Head, Brixham 31st May 17 at 7:20 PM
    Hi guys,

    I received a PCN following a recent holiday we took in Torquay claiming that the reason was Parking Session Expired or Unpaid for the Berry Head carpark

    Following the advice in the NEWBIES thread at the posts from others I filled out my appeal to Premier Park online using the template provided challenging the PCN. I to date have not admitted to being the driver at the time.

    Within a couple of days I got an email back stating:

    Re: Parking Charge Notice *******

    We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal, on behalf of the driver, appealing against the issuing of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the vehicle.

    We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:
    (link to legistlation.co.uk)

    We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by 6th June 2017. Please note, Premier Park Limited will not reply to any correspondence until after the above date, if the requested information is not provided.

    If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.

    If you would like to view our photographic evidence, please visit (link to PCN website)

    Please respond by return or by filling in the Transfer of Liability form on the reverse of the PCN and posting it to Premier Park, PO Box 624, Exeter, EX1 9JG.


    Yours Sincerely,
    cid:image001.png@01D15F47.91CA8360

    The Appeals Team
    Premier Park Ltd

    I have done some reading and research (crossing to other forums also) as the next stage confuses me slightly. I found another 'victim' of a claim in Berry Head who has posted his findings and it was very impressive. With the help of others and previous appeals he compiled the response which can be found at forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t106358.html

    I have amended it slightly for my own response but was hoping some of the guys here who are more intelligent and practised in these things could have a look over it to see if there is anything that has changed since Sept 2016.

    Thanks guys.
Page 2
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 12th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    redwolve378
    Here is a link to the first initial letter
    http://imgur.com/a/CEzbA
    Last edited by redwolve378; 12-06-2017 at 9:05 PM. Reason: edit image link
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 12th Jun 17, 8:16 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    redwolve378
    Usual story from what I have read everywhere else - images taken outside of the carpark on the road.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Jun 17, 8:40 PM
    • 32,403 Posts
    • 16,500 Thanks
    Quentin
    Here is a link to the first initial letter......
    Originally posted by redwolve378
    You need to do more editing.


    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts/thread against you.


    You can be identified by the info left on view (eg exact time and date and location etc)
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 12th Jun 17, 9:06 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    redwolve378
    You need to do more editing.


    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts/thread against you.


    You can be identified by the info left on view (eg exact time and date and location etc)
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Ooooooopppppsssssss............
    Image amended now
    :/
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 12th Jun 17, 9:14 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    redwolve378
    This was an interesting read though
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=108716&st=80
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 17, 12:00 AM
    • 49,037 Posts
    • 62,503 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Usual story from what I have read everywhere else - images taken outside of the carpark on the road.
    Originally posted by redwolve378
    Wow, that second photo is right out on the public highway! Nowhere near the entrance.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RobinofLoxley
    • By RobinofLoxley 13th Jun 17, 12:06 AM
    • 80 Posts
    • 144 Thanks
    RobinofLoxley
    There are many points that can be used in your appeal against keeper liability.

    For Premier Park to be able to transfer the liability for the charge to the keeper under POFA 2012 Schedule 4, there are many conditions they must meet. Have a read of the act and familiarise yourself with it if you haven't already.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

    1) Premier Park are still using in their PCN's the sentence "If within 29 days we have not received....." .
    This doesn't conform with the wording required in Paragraph 9(2)(f) of the POFA 2012

    9 (1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes
    of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the
    following requirements are met.
    (2) The notice must (f) warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with
    the day after that on which the notice is given.


    Most POPLA assessors have agreed this incorrect wording is reason enough to decide a NTK doesn't conform to POFA and uphold an appeal, although one or two haven't.

    Some other threads highlighting this

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5533419
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5523834

    2) There is also the question of whether the car park at Berry Head is 'relevant land' in respect of POFA

    3(1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
    (a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980).


    As this is council land I would suggest it is maintained at the public expense.

    3) Signage. Premier Park do not have planning consent for their signs at Berry Head as required by the 'Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007'.
    This does not meet the condition set out in Paragraph 12 of POFA 2012.

    12 (1) The fourth condition is that any applicable requirements prescribed under
    this paragraph were met at the beginning of the period of parking to which
    the unpaid parking charges relate.
    (2) The appropriate national authority may by regulations made by statutory
    instrument prescribe requirements as to the display of notices on relevant
    land where parking charges may be incurred in respect of the parking of
    vehicles on the land.
    .

    Other non POFA related points that can be included in your appeal are :

    1) Signage - The signage is inadequate - (search the forum re inadequate signage).
    Particularly the entrance sign which doesn't meet the standard required by the BPA as set out in their Code of Practice.

    18.2 Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring
    trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms
    and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the
    entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed
    and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signs must follow
    some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must
    take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is
    recommended that you follow Department for Transport guidance on this. See Appendix B
    for an example of an entrance sign and more information about their use.

    Appendix B
    Signs at the entrance to the parking area should clearly show the type of parking; and if, when and
    how any payment should be made. Ideally the AOS logo should be incorporated to indicate that
    the parking is managed under a Code of Practice. You must always mention that terms and
    conditions apply and say where drivers can find more details.
    The sign should be placed so that it is readable by drivers without their needing to look away from the road ahead.


    2) The photos given by PP as evidence of parking don't show the vehicle within the boundary of the car park, they actually show it on the public highway and offer no evidence that the vehicle is in the car park.

    3) Grace Periods - The BPA CoP section 13 states that grace periods must be allowed. One for the motorist from entering the car park to obtaining a ticket and one at the end of the paid for parking period to exit the car park. The first one is accepted to be 10 minutes and the second one is a minimum of 10 minutes.

    13 Grace periods
    13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended,before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.
    .

    It would be good to get to know the BPA's Code of Practice.

    http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf
    Last edited by RobinofLoxley; 13-06-2017 at 12:56 AM.
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 13th Jun 17, 7:58 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    redwolve378
    Wow Robin, that's brilliant. Thank you very very much for those points and links. Guess I have some homework to do later on in constructing my appeal letter.
    • redwolve378
    • By redwolve378 5th Jul 17, 5:58 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    redwolve378
    Hi guys.
    For those following this a quick update for you. I received an email from the lads at Popla:

    Thank you for submitting your parking charge Appeal to POPLA.

    An Appeal has been opened with the reference **********

    Premier Park have told us they do not wish to contest the Appeal. This means that your Appeal is successful and you do not need to pay the parking charge.

    Yours sincerely

    POPLA Team

    SUCCESS!!!!!!!

    I want to take this opportunity to thank all those that had input. You guys were a massive help to me and my appeal. Thank you.
    Another victory against scam artists
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Jul 17, 10:26 PM
    • 14,077 Posts
    • 22,102 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Another victory against scam artists
    Yep, good result. Another one dips out at POPLA, proving they either didn't have the intellect to challenge the appeal, or they had no legitimate case to pursue. Take your choice.

    You can choose both if you wish.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • RobinofLoxley
    • By RobinofLoxley 4th Aug 17, 4:13 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 144 Thanks
    RobinofLoxley
    Probably due to the fact that Premier Park no longer operate there, I believe they were kicked out in June
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,593Posts Today

8,623Users online

Martin's Twitter