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  • FIRST POST
    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 30th May 17, 3:09 PM
    • 8Posts
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    KingTen87
    Contest parking ticket under GPEOL only
    • #1
    • 30th May 17, 3:09 PM
    Contest parking ticket under GPEOL only 30th May 17 at 3:09 PM
    Hi all,

    I've read through as much of the newbie thread as possible but wanted to seek some quick advice. To cut a long story short, I left my parking permit in my glove box when I went out on Sunday, and returned to my car on Monday to find a fine attached to my windscreen. Admittedly this was my own fault, however the space I parked in is a numbered space in a gated car park and allocated to my flat (of which I am the tenant, and may have the space number noted in my lease). Given that fact, can I appeal based solely on GPEOL? The car park is enforced (for want of a better word) by UKPC, and there is probably enough signage in the general area. However, as I am the only person entitled to use that space, nobody has lost any earnings or revenue as a result of me parking there.

    Most of the appeal cases I see/saw are based on multiple points e.g. signage, contract and GPEOL. Can I go for an appeal with GPEOL only or should I just formulate an appeal based on multiple points and see where it goes?

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th May 17, 3:13 PM
    • 13,593 Posts
    • 21,311 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 30th May 17, 3:13 PM
    • #2
    • 30th May 17, 3:13 PM
    Given that fact, can I appeal based solely on GPEOL?
    It's absolutely the very last thing you appeal on now. The Supreme Court Judges in the Barry Beavis case put paid to that!

    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky for information on dealing with your ticket.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th May 17, 3:16 PM
    • 48,190 Posts
    • 61,663 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 30th May 17, 3:16 PM
    • #3
    • 30th May 17, 3:16 PM
    Given that fact, can I appeal based solely on GPEOL?
    If you want to lose and be sued, and lose in court too...

    You have been reading some very old posts.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 30th May 17, 3:26 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    KingTen87
    • #4
    • 30th May 17, 3:26 PM
    • #4
    • 30th May 17, 3:26 PM
    I've just seen the parts in the newbie thread about not relying on GPEOL. Looks like I'll just pay it, it was my own fault anyway. Live and learn.

    Apologies for wasting everyone's time.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th May 17, 3:34 PM
    • 48,190 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 30th May 17, 3:34 PM
    • #5
    • 30th May 17, 3:34 PM
    Nononono. No-one pays UKPC! How on earth did you reach that conclusion?

    Even worse, this is a residential car park where you have exclusive rights to use that space, never mind a damn permit from a third party!

    Of course you do not owe a debt to UKPC. You could argue they have trespassed in YOUR space...you need to read some decent threads like those by hairray, Daniel San and infernouk.

    PLEASE READ THEM FIRST!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 30-05-2017 at 3:37 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • waamo
    • By waamo 30th May 17, 3:37 PM
    • 1,711 Posts
    • 2,031 Thanks
    waamo
    • #6
    • 30th May 17, 3:37 PM
    • #6
    • 30th May 17, 3:37 PM
    No don't pay it. Gpeol may be dead but the raft of other reasons to appeal are very much alive.

    You need to read the Newbies thread properly and appeal.
    This space for hire.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th May 17, 3:37 PM
    • 14,758 Posts
    • 18,557 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 3:37 PM
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 3:37 PM
    only a fool would try the not a gpeol angle

    and only a fool would pay these scammers

    its your space, pay nothing , dont be bullied and dont let them sc@m you in your own space
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 30th May 17, 3:42 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    KingTen87
    • #8
    • 30th May 17, 3:42 PM
    • #8
    • 30th May 17, 3:42 PM
    @Coupon-mad mainly from the fact that I believe in actions and consequences. I can see why people dispute these charges, and it's annoying knowing that it's my space and I got a charge for using it, but it was due to my own stupidity. The rules were laid out, I didn't display my permit and I got the PCN as a result. It would be a £60 lesson learned - buy a permit holder so that I can affix my permit to the windscreen and enjoy thrashing my car around without needing to move the permit into the glove box
    Last edited by KingTen87; 30-05-2017 at 3:44 PM.
    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 30th May 17, 3:43 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    KingTen87
    • #9
    • 30th May 17, 3:43 PM
    • #9
    • 30th May 17, 3:43 PM
    Thanks for all of the replies, perhaps I'll sit down and re-read the newbie thread later on. @Coupon-mad I've just seen your edit as well, I'll take a look at those in more detail. Cheers.
    Last edited by KingTen87; 30-05-2017 at 3:46 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th May 17, 3:47 PM
    • 48,190 Posts
    • 61,663 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hooray - do NOT pay this. Come back once you've been fired up by reading those threads.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 30th May 17, 3:51 PM
    • 39,704 Posts
    • 79,466 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for all of the replies, perhaps I'll sit down and re-read the newbie thread later on.
    Originally posted by KingTen87
    The first thing you need to do is read your lease/AST to see what it says about parking. UKPC are scammers of the first order and were caught doctoring time stamps on their Photo' "evidence" a while ago. They have recently been in trouble with HMRC as well.

    If there is no mention of parking, or permits in your lease/AST, why on earth are you displaying a permit in the first place, and what idiot let the scammers lose in a gated car park?

    Your lease/AST trumps all so you start with that.

    Then you send the BPA template in blue from the NEBIES thread as KEEPER, and carefully add that a third party (UKPC Scammers Inc) cannot add on Ts and Cs to an existing contract (your lease/AST.)
    Read and quote the judges comments from following cases mentioned by the Prankster.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70895919&posted=1#post70895919

    Only an idiot pays parking scammers. Only an idiot allows someone to tell them to pay when their lease/contract doesn't mention it.

    Your lease/AST has primacy of contract and you should be directing your ire at the idiots who employed the scammers, which is probably a Management Agency that gets a kick back from every ticket.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th May 17, 3:55 PM
    • 13,593 Posts
    • 21,311 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thanks for all of the replies, perhaps I'll sit down and re-read the newbie thread later on.
    Originally posted by KingTen87
    And hopefully reappraise your haste to pay a scammer, and thereby helping to perpetuate the scam. Do you know UKPC's background?

    1. 'Give the car parks a good banging' (especially the areas around the Oncology Department where cancer sufferers have more on their minds following their chemotherapy treatment and more likely to infringe parking regs).

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711460/Give-sites-good-banging-The-wardens-3k-bonuses-urged-bosses-issue-scores-parking-tickets-day.html

    2. 'Doctor the time stamps on your cameras' (and be able to issue tickets showing an overstay where one hasn't taken place).

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

    And you want to pay this shower? Lord, give me strength!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 30th May 17, 4:04 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    KingTen87
    For context, I've got a lot going on at the moment both at work and at home and the newbie thread contains a LOT of information. It seems like an overwhelming task which is why I had considered just paying the PCN and having one less PITA to worry about.

    I am aware that UKPC are not reputable, however the comments about only an idiot/fool paying them or generally judging me for my comments or actions seem unfair.

    Anyway, thanks to everyone for the advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th May 17, 4:11 PM
    • 48,190 Posts
    • 61,663 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please don't pay it. You only need to send the BPA template appeal on day 26, ticking 'registered keeper'. No need to feel there is too much information, the BPA template is easily seen, in blue writing, copy it on day 26 into UKPC's online appeals page.

    Ignore them if they then write asking who was driving. Come back at POPLA code stage/rejection letter. We can walk you through it.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th May 17, 4:12 PM
    • 13,593 Posts
    • 21,311 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    For context, I've got a lot going on at the moment both at work and at home
    And that is what they rely on - hassle, intimidation, pressure = crrrrack = kerching.

    You just need to read post #1 of the sticky to get you going with a ready written appeal template (in blue text) for you to simply copy, paste, then bung off via the method UKPC require (contained in the NtK letter).
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 30th May 17, 4:13 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    KingTen87
    Thanks, I'll be sure to do that. Appreciate the help!
    • KingTen87
    • By KingTen87 12th Jul 17, 10:45 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    KingTen87
    Hi all,

    I submitted the online appeal to UKPC the other week (I was away so I think it went in around day 26/27) - I guess now I sit tight and wait for a response with a POPLA code, whilst keeping an eye out for an NtK through the post?

    As an aside, my AST for the flat references the property and my allocated, numbered space as 'the premises', but makes no reference to requiring a permit or to the car park being managed.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 12th Jul 17, 11:09 AM
    • 3,653 Posts
    • 5,178 Thanks
    Half_way
    So why are you displaying a permit to park?
    You need to tell the management company that they may cancel their agents charge, and you have only been displaying a permit at your own discretion and as a courtesy to the person who patrols the car park
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • hoohoo
    • By hoohoo 12th Jul 17, 1:39 PM
    • 1,670 Posts
    • 3,089 Thanks
    hoohoo
    @Coupon-mad mainly from the fact that I believe in actions and consequences. I can see why people dispute these charges, and it's annoying knowing that it's my space and I got a charge for using it, but it was due to my own stupidity. The rules were laid out, I didn't display my permit and I got the PCN as a result. It would be a £60 lesson learned - buy a permit holder so that I can affix my permit to the windscreen and enjoy thrashing my car around without needing to move the permit into the glove box
    Originally posted by KingTen87
    The thing is, they are not allowed to just come in and dictate rules for you to park in your own space.

    They are they to stop non-residents parking, not harass residents and their legitimate visitors.

    If they don't understand this, they should be booted out and a proper operator put in, who cancel charges mistakenly issued to residents and legitimate visitors.
    Dedicated to driving up standards in parking
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Jul 17, 1:59 PM
    • 6,679 Posts
    • 5,663 Thanks
    The Deep
    I would, at a guess, say that no blame whatsoever attaches to you.

    Most tenants will have an AST which trumps to so-called breach of contract claims dreamed up by these scammers, often in league with venal Managing Agents.

    This company is particularly well known for fraudulent claims, and should be fought at every level. Paying them off will result in lots more harassment as they will think that you are easy pickings.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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