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  • FIRST POST
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 30th May 17, 2:40 PM
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    SuboJvR
    Advice please - renewing tenancy, buying a new home
    • #1
    • 30th May 17, 2:40 PM
    Advice please - renewing tenancy, buying a new home 30th May 17 at 2:40 PM
    Hi, can anyone please offer some advice.

    We are currently renting and near the end of our initial term of 24 months. We have an option to Renew, I asked for a rolling break clause (this was initially suggested by the agent), as we have reserved a new build home, but I have not made the agent nor landlord aware of that yet.

    I have factored in the cost of potentially 2 months of double payments i.e. 2 months of rent and moving into the new build, as we will only get maybe 2 weeks notice of our completion date on the new home.

    So I was hoping we would be able to continue renting, get completion date, give notice, and essentially have 6 weeks overlap.

    The landlord (via the letting agent) has instead proposed a new 12 month term with a 9 month (!) break clause option.

    We do get on well with our landlord, and the agents are fine. We are dealing with a renewals negotiator at the letting agency. We are good tenants and have taken good care of the property and will continue to do so.

    I am worried about letting either party know that we do intend to be moving out all being well - this would mean us serving notice in probably October/November but we would be happy to accept viewings much earlier so long as the future tenants knew we would only be out by November.

    My big worry:
    Can the landlord decide not to let us renew if we let him know our plans now?

    Should I be speaking to the landlord or the agent about this? I don't know how honest to be. Does anyone have any advice for me - I don't want us to be chucked out in two months... Thank you!!
Page 1
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 30th May 17, 2:45 PM
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    Guest101
    • #2
    • 30th May 17, 2:45 PM
    • #2
    • 30th May 17, 2:45 PM
    Calm down.


    Just do nothing, it automatically becomes a monthly agreement.


    - it's literally impossible for you to be chucked out (legally) in 2 months.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 30th May 17, 2:49 PM
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    SuboJvR
    • #3
    • 30th May 17, 2:49 PM
    • #3
    • 30th May 17, 2:49 PM
    Haha thank you - I needed that.

    Why do they go through this back and forth then, is it just for the agency to get more fees?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 30th May 17, 2:52 PM
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    Guest101
    • #4
    • 30th May 17, 2:52 PM
    • #4
    • 30th May 17, 2:52 PM
    Haha thank you - I needed that.

    Why do they go through this back and forth then, is it just for the agency to get more fees?
    Originally posted by SuboJvR


    Could be, or could be that the LL wants you to have a fixed term, in any case, eviction take 3-5 months. - and that's assuming they're actually silly enough to evict a good tenant over this.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 30th May 17, 2:55 PM
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    • #5
    • 30th May 17, 2:55 PM
    • #5
    • 30th May 17, 2:55 PM
    Usually this renewal pish & capers is down to the letting agent wanting to extract money from you. Sometimes it's down to ignorance on the landlord's part believing that you need to have fixed term contract in place.

    It takes time and money to evict a tenant through the courts. Is any right minded landlord going to go to the hassle of evicting a paying tenant simply because the tenant would like a periodic tenancy?

    See G_M's guide to Ending/Renewing an AST for further information.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 30th May 17, 3:23 PM
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    theartfullodger
    • #6
    • 30th May 17, 3:23 PM
    • #6
    • 30th May 17, 3:23 PM
    Calm down.


    Just do nothing, it automatically becomes a monthly agreement.....
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Completely agree, 100%!

    .....- it's literally impossible for you to be chucked out (legally) in 2 months.
    Untrue:

    A judge at a possession hearing can order immediate PO (judge discretion "forthwith"). Some s8 notice grounds can be taken to court after 14 days: g14 can be started immediately.. see..
    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/grounds-for-possession

    So it is literally possible to be "chucked out" (can we agree "legally evicted") in 2 months: Rare, I agree, but possible.

    e.g. Issue valid s8: Start court action same day or 14 days later, requesting HCEO: Get early court date due to cancellation (rare) or exceptional circumstances, granted immediate PO, HCEO eviction easily within 2 months.
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 30-05-2017 at 3:32 PM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 30th May 17, 3:38 PM
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    Guest101
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 3:38 PM
    • #7
    • 30th May 17, 3:38 PM
    Completely agree, 100%!

    Untrue:

    A judge at a possession hearing can order immediate PO (judge discretion "forthwith"). Some s8 notice grounds can be taken to court after 14 days: g14 can be started immediately.. see..
    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/grounds-for-possession

    So it is literally possible to be "chucked out" (can we agree "legally evicted") in 2 months: Rare, I agree, but possible.

    e.g. Issue valid s8: Start court action same day or 14 days later, requesting HCEO: Get early court date due to cancellation (rare) or exceptional circumstances, granted immediate PO, HCEO eviction easily within 2 months.
    Originally posted by theartfullodger


    Apologies - yes I meant using s.21 notice which is ofcourse 2 months.


    The OP made no reference to any breaches, in fact they said they had a good relationship so I assumed rent was upto date etc.


    So yes it's possible, though extremely rare and in any case, I don't think the OP is in that boat - but happy to have it clarified of course
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 30th May 17, 3:44 PM
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    SuboJvR
    • #8
    • 30th May 17, 3:44 PM
    • #8
    • 30th May 17, 3:44 PM
    Thanks all for your thoughts. I'm going to be brave and speak to the landlord. I'm sure we can come to a mutually agreeable solution - I understand he doesn't just want a month's notice dropped on him, and would happily give him as much warning as we can and help him market etc.

    You are all correct as well that we haven't had any breaches and rent is not just paid on time, but early because I am paranoid about how long it may take the bank transfers! :-)
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 9th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
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    SuboJvR
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jun 17, 3:26 PM
    Hi again all

    I spoke to the landlord and he was very understanding, he explained he just doesn't want the property to sit empty and doesn't want to market it over the winter months. He agreed to speak to the agent to discuss just going onto a periodic tenancy with them.

    The agent came back to me and offered a 2 month extension to our AST (hence, we sign again, £90 for me and £90 for the landlord to pay) instead, to give the landlord "protection" and to avoid marketing over winter.

    I really can't understand the logic here, it seems like they are potentially even putting him in a worse position too. As instead of being where we are now, in the summer, we will delay it to the Autumn. And if we simply stay on, he will then need to serve a Section 21 and then aim to evict us in the middle of winter, right?

    Furthermore, if we agree to it, we can simply walk away in October without giving him any warning whatsoever!

    The thing that concerns me is that he could just serve a section 21 now, or any time, to get us out in these "precious" summer months instead.

    If he needed to evict us would that affect a mortgage application for us?

    I really don't think it'll come to that - as said, he was very reasonable over the phone as was I and I explained we would be as helpful as possible on a periodic agreement! I believe the letting agent are just trying to scare him into getting more fees out of us both
    Last edited by SuboJvR; 09-06-2017 at 3:38 PM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 9th Jun 17, 3:41 PM
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    Pixie5740
    Is your landlord aware that the letting agent works for him and not the other way around? What benefit is it to either you or the landlord to sign this 2 month fixed term? As far as I can see it only benefits the letting agent to the tune of £180.

    Just say thanks but no thanks and that you're happy with a periodic tenancy. The letting agent can't prevent it and the landlord can't prevent it. A 2 months fixed term won't give you much more security than you'd have with a periodic tenancy anyway.

    What's the landlord's concern with marketing the property in winter? People move home every month of the year. He sounds like the sort of clueless fanny who shouldn't be letting property at all.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 9th Jun 17, 3:46 PM
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    SuboJvR
    He's inexperienced with it all I think, it's not like he has lots of properties - this is the only one, effectively it's his second home. I think he bought it, lived here, and when he met someone else they moved in together elsewhere.

    I really think they are filling his head with ideas about not being able to offer it out easily in Winter. On the very day we viewed and signed up I know for a fact the second viewers would've also offered as they since became our neighbours and told us as much!

    The "agent" we are dealing with isn't even the local office, it's their renewals negotiation team in London whom neither of us have ever met.

    If I say we are happy with the periodic tenancy - what's to stop the landlord then serving a Section 21 to get us out (other than his own inexperience, I'm not sure he will know about these things!!)

    (I doubt he will, as we are good tenants and we may not even go anywhere if the purchase doesn't work out and he'll lose us for good then)
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 9th Jun 17, 3:51 PM
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    Pixie5740
    There's nothing stopping him for serving a Section 21 notice. As I'm sure you've already read in the link I provided in an earlier post a ground (reason) is not required for a Section 21 to be issued. You will also have read in the link that a Section 21 does not end the tenancy it is merely notice (2 months) that the landlord might go to court to get a possession order.

    It's up to you, sign a new fixed term contract paying for the privilege and face a long period of having to pay both rent and a mortgage, or let your tenancy become periodic.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 9th Jun 17, 4:39 PM
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    SuboJvR
    Hi Pixie,

    Thank you - yes you have confirmed my thoughts.

    We do not want to sign a new agreement. I just want to help the landlord to understand that it also doesn't really benefit him, so that we may be on good terms. If I simply said "we're going periodic, thanks" then I feel the agency may pressure him then to issue Section 21, start advertising, etc. In reality, I don't think he wants that as since we are in his property we do hold quite a few cards as to whether we make his re-letting easy or not!

    Plus of course, that old chestnut where we may not actually move out if we don't get a mortgage offer!!

    Can I ask - do you know if he does need to go to the courts to get an eviction, would that affect our chances of a mortgage do you know?
    Last edited by SuboJvR; 09-06-2017 at 4:41 PM.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 9th Jun 17, 4:43 PM
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    Guest101
    Then send him a link to this thread


    No, as long as you pay any court order with-in 28 days it will have no effect whatsoever
    • DumbMuscle
    • By DumbMuscle 9th Jun 17, 4:44 PM
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    DumbMuscle
    You have direct contact with the landlord - ask him why he wants the 2 month fix, and point out that it gives him no real security over the rolling tenancy, and it seems that the agents are just trying to get their renewal fees.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 9th Jun 17, 8:21 PM
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    SuboJvR
    Further update.

    Landlord phoned me just to offer some reassurance whilst he reads over all that I have emailed and gives it some thought.

    I explained that with the two month extension the agency are the only ones to gain and he would actually be in a more vulnerable position than if we went periodic! Definitely gave him something to think about! As at the end of that fixed term, we could simply vacate without notice...

    He said that if the house sale falls through, potentially we could just come to an agreement between the two of us anyway?

    This to me says he is trusting of us and hopefully we can come to a sort of arrangement where he doesn't need any "protection" if our home buy all goes through.

    I again re-iterated that the periodic tenancy would mean neither of us needs to do anything, it's legally recognised, and that whilst the mandatory notice period is one month we would like to give him much more warning than that.

    Thanks for all the help and guidance. Really hope we can just agree on the periodic tenancy and informally we will be open to viewings much earlier than 1 month's notice.
    • mouthscradle
    • By mouthscradle 9th Jun 17, 9:07 PM
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    mouthscradle
    Glad that your landlord is being friendly and reasonable.

    Ours wasn't. We didn't want to sign another fixed term and so we were served a Section 21 after 2 years of being the perfect tenants. The end of the 2 months notice period coincided with me being 9 months pregnant! That was pretty stressful... We cobbled our money together, started a house search at lightning speed, and completed on this house 3 days after moving out of the rental. 10 days before baby arrived.
    Mother, wife, scientist, analyst.
    • SuboJvR
    • By SuboJvR 14th Jun 17, 2:24 PM
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    SuboJvR
    Thanks so much again everyone for arming me with all the necessary information. Had a very productive chat with my landlord, we have agreed to not do anything at the moment, he's happy for us to just keep him in the loop as we know more about the house purchase.

    I advised that on a SPT we would need to give a full "rental period" notice and that the reality would be that it would be very unlikely for us to be in a position to only drop four weeks' notice on him; the developer would need to give us the go-ahead the day before our tenancy period ends. Additionally, this would probably be too soon for us as will need to get flooring people in etc and sort removals only once they have given us a definite completion date. I explained that realistically, whatever we do, it will be 6-8 weeks. Discussed possible contractual periodic tenancy whereby we would suggest "two calendar months" notice specifically but he didn't seem overly fussed.

    And, next door which went up for let a couple of weeks ago has now been let, so as predicted - no shortage of tenants round our parts.
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