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  • FIRST POST
    • AG47
    • By AG47 22nd May 17, 6:39 PM
    • 611Posts
    • 144Thanks
    AG47
    Buy ethereum uk
    • #1
    • 22nd May 17, 6:39 PM
    Buy ethereum uk 22nd May 17 at 6:39 PM
    Where is the best place to buy ethereum in the uk?

    Then to get it out into an offline wallet please?
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
Page 2
    • economic
    • By economic 17th Jun 17, 12:37 AM
    • 1,877 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    economic
    And can be easily hacked, controlled/taxes by government, complicated and confusing to buy - sometimes can lose the money.

    Crypto is a innovative technology but that's all it is. It is not currency as it is not legal tender. It is used in very few places much line you can use vouchers to pay for something.

    I seriously doubt it will go mainstream. Even if it does it's not like the people who have be most automatically will have be most money. They will distribute it according to how much money people have in currency money.

    But you never know if the masses start buying into it it can turn into a bigger bubble! That's if they can be bothered going through the loopholes to buy it.
    • AG47
    • By AG47 17th Jun 17, 6:31 AM
    • 611 Posts
    • 144 Thanks
    AG47
    Currency is flowing out of other set classes like property and stocks into Bitcoin and ethereum
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
    • economic
    • By economic 17th Jun 17, 8:34 AM
    • 1,877 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    economic
    Currency is flowing out of other set classes like property and stocks into Bitcoin and ethereum
    Originally posted by AG47
    Where's the evidence?
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 11:19 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    Whether it's desirable or not is debatable, but it has no intrinsic value. A Bitcoin is just a series of binary bits, and its value is defined by reference to other currencies.
    Originally posted by fwor
    You could say this about many things with silly value. Antiques. Art. The only "intrinsic value" they have is the wood they're made from or the paper they're painted on. The fact that many are 'worth' 10,000x more than that is only because someone is willing to pay more for them.

    Anything in the world, Bitcoin, indemand Electronics, Antiques is only worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it. Otherwise it's all worthless (and in many cases the electronics, antiques and art are worth less than the sum of the materials cost to make it!)

    Of course Amazon is a safer investment, but it's also a long term slow investment you'll like make a few percent on. Ironically, Amazon invest quite a lot into Bitcoin...

    Everything is in a bubble though - it's just some bubbles like Bitcoin might come and go in 20 years - Amazon might last 50 if it's lucky (and if it adapts). Apple is a current bubble. Nothing lasts forever. The entire economy is a bubble that expands and contracts, that's capitalism for you.

    Put £1000 in Eth, leave it for a couple of months and see if it does better than a 1% ISA at the bank when you cash, then tell me it's a pointless thing to play around with.
    • economic
    • By economic 17th Jun 17, 11:55 AM
    • 1,877 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    economic
    You could say this about many things with silly value. Antiques. Art. The only "intrinsic value" they have is the wood they're made from or the paper they're painted on. The fact that many are 'worth' 10,000x more than that is only because someone is willing to pay more for them.

    Anything in the world, Bitcoin, indemand Electronics, Antiques is only worth as much as someone else is willing to pay for it. Otherwise it's all worthless (and in many cases the electronics, antiques and art are worth less than the sum of the materials cost to make it!)

    Of course Amazon is a safer investment, but it's also a long term slow investment you'll like make a few percent on. Ironically, Amazon invest quite a lot into Bitcoin...

    Everything is in a bubble though - it's just some bubbles like Bitcoin might come and go in 20 years - Amazon might last 50 if it's lucky (and if it adapts). Apple is a current bubble. Nothing lasts forever. The entire economy is a bubble that expands and contracts, that's capitalism for you.

    Put £1000 in Eth, leave it for a couple of months and see if it does better than a 1% ISA at the bank when you cash, then tell me it's a pointless thing to play around with.
    Originally posted by realdannys
    I am tempted to stick in a few grand into ETH but I have no idea about it. its money I can afford to lose. do you know where the price can potentially go from here and if its worth waiting for it to dip before buying?
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 12:22 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    I am tempted to stick in a few grand into ETH but I have no idea about it. its money I can afford to lose. do you know where the price can potentially go from here and if its worth waiting for it to dip before buying?
    Originally posted by economic
    I've converted you

    I'm not sure to be honest. Like any higher risk investment I don't know what's going to happen - but I think it'd be pretty safe to get in now and sit on it for a while. Pretty much all the major cryptos are going up at the moment.

    It's funny i've look at them on and off since about 2012 now and every time it goes up, everyone says "you're too late to get in now". Happened in 2012, 2014 and now with Bitcoin. I did only get in last year through virtue of needing to get Bitcoins to do overseas transactions for some business, so happened to make a profit by accident really, albeit quite small. I'm sure Bitcoin will dip again at some point like it did in 2014, but people thought it had reached crazy highs then at $500 a coin, never to be seen again, and now its $2300 a coin.

    I know Steve Woz bought $700 worth a few years back just to see what he could do with it when it was $30 a coin, so now he's way way up.

    My idea with Eth is to put a grand in, convert to Bitcoin or something else if it drops below £500 in value and cash out if it goes over £5000 to buy the OLED TV I want. I honestly think it's a pretty safe investment and I expect it to climb higher than my Nutmeg portfolio over the same time (and i'm on a 7/10 risk investment with them!)
    • economic
    • By economic 17th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    • 1,877 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    economic
    I've converted you

    I'm not sure to be honest. Like any higher risk investment I don't know what's going to happen - but I think it'd be pretty safe to get in now and sit on it for a while. Pretty much all the major cryptos are going up at the moment.

    It's funny i've look at them on and off since about 2012 now and every time it goes up, everyone says "you're too late to get in now". Happened in 2012, 2014 and now with Bitcoin. I did only get in last year through virtue of needing to get Bitcoins to do overseas transactions for some business, so happened to make a profit by accident really, albeit quite small. I'm sure Bitcoin will dip again at some point like it did in 2014, but people thought it had reached crazy highs then at $500 a coin, never to be seen again, and now its $2300 a coin.

    I know Steve Woz bought $700 worth a few years back just to see what he could do with it when it was $30 a coin, so now he's way way up.

    My idea with Eth is to put a grand in, convert to Bitcoin or something else if it drops below £500 in value and cash out if it goes over £5000 to buy the OLED TV I want. I honestly think it's a pretty safe investment and I expect it to climb higher than my Nutmeg portfolio over the same time (and i'm on a 7/10 risk investment with them!)
    Originally posted by realdannys
    my views still stand about crypto. I just am getting more interested in it and would like to speculate with play money.
    • Maelzoid
    • By Maelzoid 17th Jun 17, 12:49 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Maelzoid
    For anyone interested, there is a superb article on the London Review of books website called "When bitcoin grows up" by John Lanchester - I can't link to it due to anti-spam rules. It is a great first stop for anyone wanting to understand crypto-currencies.
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 1:17 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    my views still stand about crypto. I just am getting more interested in it and would like to speculate with play money.
    Originally posted by economic
    If you weren't too bothered about cashing out large amounts back to £'s and were just playing, it's very easy to convert ETH to BTC with Switch, and then you can spend BitCoin on Amazon pretty easily with iPayYou.io (shoddy looking website but actually CEO'd by the guy that was in charge of Amazon's affiliate program and previously the principal guy behind Microsoft's display advertising)
    • fwor
    • By fwor 17th Jun 17, 6:08 PM
    • 5,885 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    fwor
    You could say this about many things with silly value. Antiques. Art. The only "intrinsic value" they have is the wood they're made from or the paper they're painted on. The fact that many are 'worth' 10,000x more than that is only because someone is willing to pay more for them.
    Originally posted by realdannys
    The point I was trying to make is that a Bitcoin has ZERO underlying value.

    An antique or a work of art may have a "value" that bears little relation to the cost of its constituent parts, but no matter what happens, you will still hold your antique or work of art. You can physically take it down to your local market and someone might swap a chicken for it.

    In the case of a crypto currency, if people no longer trust the administration and security processes that it is based on, its value goes to nil, and nobody will ever place any value at all upon the particular sequence of binary bits that make up your Bitcoin.

    Even other currencies are completely different, because, for example, a US dollar's value is linked to the economic activity of a country (modified by the economic activities of other countries that tie their own currency to the dollar). A Bitcoin has no such underlying "worth" - as I said earlier, its value is set purely by reference to other currencies.

    Anyway, I still haven't seen anyone explain why they think that a Bitcoin - or any other arbitrary crypto currency - should increase in value in time when compared with other (real) currencies.

    Without that, there is no rational reason to be buying these currencies as an investment (as opposed to just a straight gamble, based purely on what has happened in the past).
    • economic
    • By economic 17th Jun 17, 6:31 PM
    • 1,877 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    economic
    don't mix up price and value. price is what you pay for something and it is what it is determined by the market. value is purely subjective, hence the disagreement here.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 17th Jun 17, 6:38 PM
    • 5,885 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    fwor
    The main point I was trying to make is about the intangibility, not the value (or price).

    The point about lack of underlying value is that a Bitcoin has no constituent parts. It is pure information.

    If the system that identifies ownership of a Bitcoin loses trust, then the information becomes completely valueless.

    But to re-iterate a question that never gets answered: why do people think that there is a fundamental reason why (say) Ethereum should go UP in price/value versus (say) the USD? Other than the fact that it has done so in the past.
    Last edited by fwor; 17-06-2017 at 6:40 PM.
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 7:00 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    The main point I was trying to make is about the intangibility, not the value (or price).

    The point about lack of underlying value is that a Bitcoin has no constituent parts. It is pure information.

    If the system that identifies ownership of a Bitcoin loses trust, then the information becomes completely valueless.

    But to re-iterate a question that never gets answered: why do people think that there is a fundamental reason why (say) Ethereum should go UP in price/value versus (say) the USD? Other than the fact that it has done so in the past.
    Originally posted by fwor
    What your describing is exactly the same for every currency. The USD has no value either. Just because it's linked to what America can do and is a lot less likely to completely crash, it still can - captalislim could completely fail, you could end up in a worse situation than Germany after WW2 with wheelbarrows of cash.

    Why would you invest in ETH instead of USD? Because USD is stable and unlikely to change and you'd not make any money. ETH is high risk but means you could make money obviously.

    It's irrelevant that it isn't physical and has no value. Your art could get damaged and be worthless, your antique could burn away - they are delicate perishable items.

    Stocks have no value - if the company goes bust, your stock isn't worth anything. This is no different. Yes of course you're gambling on the value going up, as you are for absolutely everything single high risk investment as I've already said SEIS, EIS, penny stocks - you're gambling on them going up in value, often with even LESS information than that is what has happened before.

    It's not for everyone, but then neither is building a solar, or gambling on the fact that certain classic cars will go up in value. It's all an educated guess. None of these things are any different than each other - they're just on varying risk levels - you might as well be calling them widgets.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 17th Jun 17, 8:28 PM
    • 5,885 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    fwor
    Why would you invest in ETH instead of USD? Because USD is stable and unlikely to change and you'd not make any money. ETH is high risk but means you could make money obviously.
    Originally posted by realdannys
    But you avoided the question. Why do you think the price is going to go up?

    I'm not buying US dollars as an investment against Sterling, because I've no reason to believe that its price will rise against Sterling. What is fundamentally different about Ethereum or Bitcoin or whatever crypto-currency that makes you think a rise in price against, say, the US dollar is more likely than a fall?
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 8:53 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    But you avoided the question. Why do you think the price is going to go up?

    I'm not buying US dollars as an investment against Sterling, because I've no reason to believe that its price will rise against Sterling. What is fundamentally different about Ethereum or Bitcoin or whatever crypto-currency that makes you think a rise in price against, say, the US dollar is more likely than a fall?
    Originally posted by fwor
    You mean, you want some kind of news story, like "Amazon accepts X coin" and thus the price would increase?

    I mean there are very few reasons why any volatile asset increases or decrease, if it was as easy as it being used somewhere, everyone would easily invest and become rich. Obviously it's a gamble - all stocks are.

    Fortune have an article on why BitCoin has recently reached its current high - I'm not allowed to post links, but Google it, it provides three reasons for recent surge.

    and for Ethereum - coin telegraph has an article on the reasons for it's recent rise.

    At the moment pretty much every cryptocurrency across the board is rising, and there are hundreds of them.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 17th Jun 17, 9:01 PM
    • 1,408 Posts
    • 1,232 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    And what isn't a highly speculative asset class? It's not more so than penny stocks, stocks in general, stock ISA's, EIS, SEIS schemes, heck just starting any sort of business with a high initial outlay. They're all high risk. Cryptocurrency is no different.
    Originally posted by realdannys
    The above is just ludicrous.

    Both cash ISAs and stocks and shares ISAs are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme and are as such guaranteed up to £85k.

    Care to explain who is guaranteeing your crypto currency "investments"?

    As it happens I am looking to make a speculative Eth purchase, but to say its as safe as an s&s ISA is just insane.
    Last edited by parking_question_chap; 17-06-2017 at 9:05 PM.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 17th Jun 17, 9:02 PM
    • 8,466 Posts
    • 8,395 Thanks
    Linton
    Surely a prime requirement for a viable currency is that its value against a basket of goods is fairly stable. Currency deflation is far worse for an economy than inflation as there is a strong incentive for people not to spend money.

    How can any of these crypto currencies be both good investments and viable currencies? If they arent viable currencies what real value do they have? Perhaps the same as cabbage patch dolls or beanie babies if anyone remembers them.
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 9:04 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    I did agree with your first post, but the above is just ludicrous.

    Both cash ISAs and stocks and shares ISAs are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme and are as such guaranteed up to £85k.

    Care to explain who is guaranteeing your crypto currency "investments"?

    As it happens I am looking to make a speculative Eth purchase, but to say its as save as an ISA is just insane.
    Originally posted by parking_question_chap
    Haha what?? Thats a guarantee if the bank goes bust, not if you lose your money investing in bad shares!
    You've just shown your don't understand what either ISA FSCS is, nor what a Cryptocurrency is - being decentralised there is no need for compensation as there is no main bank holding any asset to go bust.

    Either way, none of these things are protection for you losing all your money through a bad investment.
    • realdannys
    • By realdannys 17th Jun 17, 9:10 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    realdannys
    Perhaps the same as cabbage patch dolls or beanie babies if anyone remembers them.
    Originally posted by Linton
    Yeah, maybe, but they didn't increase in value for 7 years - nor did they ever go from being worth $1 to $2800.

    There's a very strange suspicion of Cryptocurrencies on here. As if they were just invented yesterday. This is quite old technology now - Asia has invested billions into it. It's the mining side you should be suspicious of (or rather the mining rigs) not the actual currencies.

    I'm not saying using it, spending it, investing in it, working with it, mining it or reading about is for everyone - but most of the questions and fears here are on a very basic level.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 17th Jun 17, 9:11 PM
    • 8,466 Posts
    • 8,395 Thanks
    Linton
    ....

    Stocks have no value - if the company goes bust, your stock isn't worth anything. This is no different. Yes of course you're gambling on the value going up, as you are for absolutely everything single high risk investment as I've already said SEIS, EIS, penny stocks - you're gambling on them going up in value, often with even LESS information than that is what has happened before.
    ....
    Originally posted by realdannys
    This is just rubbish. A shareholder is a part owner of the company. Are you claiming that Apple for example has no value? Sure it could go bust but then any asset is capable of being lost, going out out of fashion or being outmoded by technology but at least with shares there is a real underlying asset. One cant say that about ethereum or bitcoin. If it, in its current form, doesnt turn into a viable currency it is merely a row of bits of no more value than any other row of bits.
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