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  • FIRST POST
    • emski15
    • By emski15 21st May 17, 6:58 PM
    • 31Posts
    • 9Thanks
    emski15
    County Court with Smart Parking
    • #1
    • 21st May 17, 6:58 PM
    County Court with Smart Parking 21st May 17 at 6:58 PM
    Hi all,
    I was issued with a PCN from Smart Parking in December 2016. I parked on Matalan car park for 16 minutes and thought parking was free after 6pm as it was before SP took over, and the local car parks still are. I appealed, foolishly admitted to being the driver, and very naively thought they would have compassion for a genuine error. I always buy a ticket, never been in any sort of trouble before. I have now received a letter from the Northampton county court and I'm so scared, the amount is now £245. I've read the thread about defending myself but I really don't understand it all and don't know what to say or do, the wording and terminology of all the different laws is so difficult to understand. I would unbelievably grateful for any help or advice in defending.
    Last edited by emski15; 01-06-2017 at 2:21 PM. Reason: mistype
Page 3
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jun 17, 2:20 PM
    • 51,584 Posts
    • 65,205 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Pah, no worries, send it to SCS law.
    • emski15
    • By emski15 1st Jun 17, 2:28 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    DONE! Thanks Coupon-mad
    • emski15
    • By emski15 9th Jun 17, 3:16 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    Just an update, heard from the solicitors today, SP are pursuing the claim.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 9th Jun 17, 4:03 PM
    • 40,482 Posts
    • 80,866 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Yes she is, I can usually get these stopped with the first appeal but the invoice appeared over the Christmas holidays so we missed the popla deadline by one day as we were both away but overlapping.

    I have sent a very robust response to the LBC asking to clarify certain details and state their claim on my mums behalf.

    The 14 day deadline passed 2 days ago and as of yet we have heard no response.
    Originally posted by timpster
    You should mention when you have your day in court that only allowing 28 days to appeal to PoPLA is a breach of the Alternative Dispute Regulations Act (ADR) 2015 which says that ADR should be allowed for not less than twelve months.

    Court could and should have been avoided if PoPLA didn't ignore the will of Parliament.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    • emski15
    • By emski15 12th Sep 17, 8:04 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    My mum has just had the LBC for the same car park, I have pictures of the signs in place before they were removed if you need them.
    Originally posted by timpster
    Hi Timpster, I am in court in a few weeks, could you possibly send me the pictures if you still have them. I need to send all my documentation to the lawyers and courts this week.

    Many thanks.
    • emski15
    • By emski15 17th Sep 17, 5:47 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    Hi, despite my best efforts (and yours), I now have a court date and need to provide my defence evidence to Smart and the courts.

    I have no idea where to start!

    I have stated poor signage (it was dark and rainy and none of the signs are illuminated, AND small print). Do I need to print out 2 full copies of the IPC CoP and send to them both? I have also quoted the Claimants Trade Association CoP, will I need to print off 2 full copies of this as well?

    Can I email my evidence to the courts and Smart as I'm short on time?

    I really don't want to lose by making a small error this far down the line!

    Thanks in advance.

    PS. I should probably add, I've read the newbies post down to the court references and followed the links, but I am still at a loss. I'm recovering from glandular fever so my mind is not fully functional.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 17th Sep 17, 8:20 PM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Lamilad
    When does your bundle need to be sent - What is your court date?
    • emski15
    • By emski15 17th Sep 17, 9:23 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    3rd October so I need to email it tomorrow. I wouldn't have left it to the last minute if I hadn't been so ill.

    Do I need to include a witness statement from myself? How do I layout the evidence?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Sep 17, 10:55 PM
    • 15,572 Posts
    • 24,322 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Everything you need relating to dealing with a small claims court claim is contained in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.

    Please read and go through it thoroughly - that should be your Bible as your case progresses.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Sep 17, 11:20 PM
    • 51,584 Posts
    • 65,205 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I was issued with a PCN from Smart Parking in December 2016. I parked on Matalan car park for 16 minutes and thought parking was free after 6pm as it was before SP took over, and the local car parks still are. I appealed, foolishly admitted to being the driver, and very naively thought they would have compassion for a genuine error. I always buy a ticket,
    Just bringing forward the reason for the PCN and the fact you've already said who was driving, which is probably why they are taking this further than normal. This is more of a struggle than it ever should have been, but we are where we are, and it is worth fighting.

    Show us a simple WS that says what happened, and that there were not very prominent signs that alerted you to the change to the previous free parking after 6pm, which is contrary to the BPA CoP.

    Show us as well, what evidence you intend to file with the WS - e.g. signage pics - even better, lack of signs in some areas which is OF COURSE the corner you stopped at...! Also the BPA CoP on grace periods and the BPA CoP on the requirement to clearly sign any new/change of restrictions so local drivers are alerted to a change they would not otherwise know to look for.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-10-2017 at 7:57 PM.
    • emski15
    • By emski15 2nd Oct 17, 7:08 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    Thank coupon-mad. I quoted the BPA CoP on allowing a grace period when restrictions are in pace where none previously were.

    Currently prepping for court. What exactly do I need to take? Should I have a skeleton argument and do I need 3 copies of everything for the judge and claimant?

    Thanks again all.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 2nd Oct 17, 8:01 PM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Lamilad
    You don't need a skeleton argument but have list of notes in frony of you referencing the main points in your defence and the deficiencies you wish to question in their ws.

    It should also have ready made answer to questions you think you may be asked.

    Have you submitted a costs schedule? If not take it with you, along with supporting docs (wage slip etc). If you intend to question rights of audience then take the preliminary matters docs with you.

    You need something to write notes on.

    Yes - you need 3 copies of your bundle with you.
    Last edited by Lamilad; 02-10-2017 at 8:03 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Oct 17, 8:04 PM
    • 51,584 Posts
    • 65,205 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You can have a skeleton argument if it helps you as a crib sheet, and assists the court to narrow the issues, and if there's anything else you want to exhibit by way of cases and transcripts it can be added with your skeleton.

    Did you quote the right CoP at all times? I was concerned that you mentioned the IPC, wrongly, in one post.

    Also you need to do your costs schedule anyway and file that with SCS and the court. As covered in the NEWBIES thread, with an example.

    Because you can't rely on the POFA (damn!) your best point is unlit signs in the dark/rain, so I hope you got a video filmed by a passenger, in the dark, or decent photos in the dark (no flash!) showing how hopeless the alleged 'contract' was because it couldn't be read.

    If not, do that and file the photos with a skeleton and costs schedule, and say you will be bringing video evidence and your laptop to court to show the signs are not lit or legible at all, after darkness, contrary to the BPA Code.

    Is that possible, or are your photos dynamite already? You have little else to defend on without the POFA.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-10-2017 at 8:07 PM.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 2nd Oct 17, 8:10 PM
    • 1,712 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Any chance of putting up their WS. Use Dropbox and take out identifying information. We'll pick at the carcass of their statements and see what we can pull apart.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • emski15
    • By emski15 2nd Oct 17, 10:11 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    Did you quote the right CoP at all times? I was concerned that you mentioned the IPC, wrongly, in one post.

    Also you need to do your costs schedule anyway and file that with SCS and the court. As covered in the NEWBIES thread, with an example.


    If not, do that and file the photos with a skeleton and costs schedule, and say you will be bringing video evidence and your laptop to court to show the signs are not lit or legible at all, after darkness, contrary to the BPA Code.

    Is that possible, or are your photos dynamite already? You have little else to defend on without the POFA.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    In my defence statement I wrongly quoted the IPC, I used the BPA in my WS though. I have noticed that the claim number is incorrect on their WS, is this any help to me? They have also wrongly stated an exhibit.

    I haven't got a video and because smart have been removed from the site, their signs are no longer there.

    Is my costs schedule for me to claim my expenses back if I win?
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 2nd Oct 17, 10:41 PM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Lamilad
    your best point is unlit signs in the dark/rain
    I'm not familiar with the details of your case but if the parking event took place in the hours of darkness and the signs were not illuminated then you should refer to VCS vs O'Connor where the judge found that no contract could have been formed because the driver didn't/ couldn't have, seen the unlit signs at night.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5530541&highlight=hc77#topofpage
    • emski15
    • By emski15 2nd Oct 17, 10:52 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    Schedule of Costs done using the template from the newbies post I've left the litigant in person rate at £19, is this accurate?
    • emski15
    • By emski15 2nd Oct 17, 10:54 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    emski15
    Any chance of putting up their WS. Use Dropbox and take out identifying information. We'll pick at the carcass of their statements and see what we can pull apart.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu

    I'm struggling to do this, currently trying to upload to 'imgbb' then i can hopefully share the link.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 4th Oct 17, 8:40 AM
    • 1,712 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Any news and can we see their WS. Try Dropbox and post a link here
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Oct 17, 2:20 PM
    • 887 Posts
    • 990 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Break the links, as normal, as you cant post real URLs yet I dont believe

    "They have also wrongly stated an exhibit. "

    What does the above mean? The reference is incorre ct e.g. they reference exhibit 001 but its actually 002, or the exhibit just isnt there?
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