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  • FIRST POST
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 12:53 PM
    • 8Posts
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    Cocolisboa
    Can I offer cash or is this illegal?
    • #1
    • 19th May 17, 12:53 PM
    Can I offer cash or is this illegal? 19th May 17 at 12:53 PM
    Hi everyone. I am a first time buyer. I have a long term illness/disability and owning my own home was something I never thought would be possible.
    However, I have now been accepted on to the LIFT scheme in Scotland for a shared equity mortgage. I am delighted, however there is quite a lot of red tape with this. There is a price threshold of how much the properties cost I.e. I can only go for properties that are 70k or less. Which is fair enough. I also can ONLY offer the valuation price. Which really means if it got to a bidding war I would be out at the first point as I can't offer any more than the value price. Trying to find a fixed rate, 2 bed, ground floor flat in my area is really difficult.

    Anyway, I found a beautiful flat last week. Went to see it and just loved it. In ideal location etc. It is an ex council flat. Anyway I put my offer in straight away. It was advertised lower than the valuation. I put in the valuation price, have no house to sell and mortgage in principle. They are selling via purplebricks. My offer was put in 6 days ago and still hasn't been accepted or rejected. The seller messaged me in purple bricks to say thankyou for my offer and that she was still accepting viewings that were already arranged prior to my offer. At this point I thought I'm going to lose out on this as i cant offer anymore. It has really upset me. My solicitor called purple bricks and the agent said he contacted the seller but has had no response yet. This is the thing with purple bricks etiquette seems to be out the window.

    My solicitor advised that I message the seller and tell them I've seen another place and want to put an offer in so I need a decision asap. But I felt this was potentially cutting my npse off to spite my face.

    Since I can't put a higher offer in to ensure she takes it off the market is it possible that I can offer cash on top of my offer or is this illegal? Or do I just face facts she is waiting around for a better offer and I will not be getting this property?
    Last edited by Cocolisboa; 19-05-2017 at 12:59 PM.
Page 1
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 19th May 17, 12:57 PM
    • 2,507 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    • #2
    • 19th May 17, 12:57 PM
    • #2
    • 19th May 17, 12:57 PM
    Unless the cash is a bigger offer what incentive does the seller have to accept it?
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 1:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Cocolisboa
    • #3
    • 19th May 17, 1:01 PM
    • #3
    • 19th May 17, 1:01 PM
    Good point. I suppose I am guessing they want a higher offer. I did ask her how much she was looking for and she said around the valuation price. Which is why I submitted my offer. I have no house to sell, and mortgage is in principle. I am just gutted as I don't think she will accept my offer
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 1:01 PM
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    Cocolisboa
    • #4
    • 19th May 17, 1:01 PM
    • #4
    • 19th May 17, 1:01 PM
    I would have offered an extra 3k in cash on top of my offer.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 19th May 17, 1:13 PM
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    G_M
    • #5
    • 19th May 17, 1:13 PM
    • #5
    • 19th May 17, 1:13 PM
    ......I have now been accepted on to the LIFT scheme........... I also can ONLY offer the valuation price.

    ............I put in the valuation price,.....

    Since I can't put a higher offer in to ensure she takes it off the market is it possible that I can offer cash on top of my offer or is this illegal?
    Originally posted by Cocolisboa
    Clearly if you offer extra cash on top of the valuation price you would be breaching the terms of the LIFT scheme.

    If you did it openly, LIFT would reject your application.

    If you did it secretly you would be commiting fraud.

    do I just face facts she is waiting around for a better offer and I will not be getting this property?
    No. She is waiting around to see if she gets a better offer, and if she doesn't she will accept yours.

    Otherwise she'd simply reject your offer.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 19th May 17, 1:17 PM
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    Pixie5740
    • #6
    • 19th May 17, 1:17 PM
    • #6
    • 19th May 17, 1:17 PM
    You not having a property to sell etc doesn't make you a more attractive buyer like it would in England. We don't have those daft chains up here. Did your solicitor formally put forward your offer to the vendor?

    Offering an additional £3k cash isn't illegal as such but if you end up offering more than the valuation or £70k it seems the LIFT scheme will no longer be available to you.

    You only made your offer 6 days ago so it's a bit early to start creaming your knickers and offering more. Again you need to understand that the house buying process is different in Scotland. The vendor needs to be confident that she is accepting the best offer. Unlike in England she cannot easily accept your offer and then turn around a few weeks later to accept someone else's offer.
    Last edited by Pixie5740; 19-05-2017 at 2:36 PM.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 19th May 17, 1:28 PM
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    theartfullodger
    • #7
    • 19th May 17, 1:28 PM
    • #7
    • 19th May 17, 1:28 PM
    I would have offered an extra 3k in cash on top of my offer.
    Originally posted by Cocolisboa
    That sounds like bribery to me, as well as tax evasion. Both, IIRC, criminal.

    Did I misunderstand you perhaps? If not, if anyone wanted to do business with me involving a side cash payment I would refuse to do business with them ever again.

    Surely the decent approach is everything visible, documented, all payments recorded, declared & taxes paid.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 19th May 17, 1:37 PM
    • 35,295 Posts
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    silvercar
    • #8
    • 19th May 17, 1:37 PM
    • #8
    • 19th May 17, 1:37 PM
    That sounds like bribery to me, as well as tax evasion. Both, IIRC, criminal.

    Did I misunderstand you perhaps? If not, if anyone wanted to do business with me involving a side cash payment I would refuse to do business with them ever again.

    Surely the decent approach is everything visible, documented, all payments recorded, declared & taxes paid.
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Bribery??? So anyone increasing the offer on a property is offering a bribe??

    Tax evasion? No SDLT on properties under 145k in Scotland, please tell us which tax is being evaded.

    I'm not saying it is right to offer a cash payment, but OP has explained that they cannot openly increase their offer due to the LIFT rules.

    Certainly doesn't warrant such a scaremongering post.
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 1:43 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Cocolisboa
    • #9
    • 19th May 17, 1:43 PM
    • #9
    • 19th May 17, 1:43 PM
    This is what I thought. I definitely won't be offering cash.
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 1:44 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Cocolisboa
    I didn't realise that was bribery! But as I said I won't be offering cash. I am completely new to this process hence the reason I am asking on here.

    My solicitor put through a formal offer.
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 1:46 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Cocolisboa
    :I am in Scotland!
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 19th May 17, 1:46 PM
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    theartfullodger
    A tenable view, in that it is held. Thanks for pointing out the LIFT wrinkle..

    I did ask if I had misunderstood - and I'm eagerly awaiting his response & if I had will of course apologise.

    But thanks, yes, but were someone trying to fiddle round the LIFT scheme rules, to his pecuniary advantage, but offering an undeclared cash payment that seems to be dead on Fraud Act S3...
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/3
    3Fraud by failing to disclose information

    A person is in breach of this section if he—

    (a)dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and

    (b)intends, by failing to disclose the information—

    (i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
    (ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
    btw there is no SDLT at all in Scotland: It's LBTT.
    Have now seen revision of
    I would have offered an extra 3k in cash on top of my offer.
    Originally posted by Cocolisboa
    to
    But as I said I won't be offering cash.
    Great!, good to hear that I naturally withdraw my earlier remarks, made based on a misunderstanding..
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 19-05-2017 at 1:49 PM.
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 3:33 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Cocolisboa
    Theartfuldodger thanks for this response. This is why I was posting anyway to check if it were legal or not. Now I know its not I will definitely not be doing this.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 19th May 17, 3:43 PM
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    theartfullodger
    Theartfuldodger thanks for this response.....
    Originally posted by Cocolisboa
    Lodger not Dodger: I don't dodge!

    Serious point: Attention to detail matters with property transactions, mortgages, LIFT etc etc etc... Read the paperwork: Then read it again ... (you'll find something..)
    • Cocolisboa
    • By Cocolisboa 19th May 17, 6:51 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Cocolisboa
    Woops thank you.
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