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  • FIRST POST
    • Living-in-hope
    • By Living-in-hope 19th May 17, 12:17 PM
    • 4Posts
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    Living-in-hope
    Land Registry
    • #1
    • 19th May 17, 12:17 PM
    Land Registry 19th May 17 at 12:17 PM
    Hi All,
    Please could you help? I am trying to find out what documents are held by the Land Registry for my property.
    I need to know what document are available for this property, particularly any that relate to the charges register. Also is it possible to find out when these charges were entered and when any updates/changes have been made to them?
    I think one form I need to fill out is the OC2 form. I have filled out this and I have read the guidance and it states that I should not simply ask for ALL or ANY. Please can you advise me what I should write?
    Currently I have put the following:
    1)"Restrictive Covenant
    2)Anything else in the Deeds which are relevant to the property but not covered above which might affect building or other rights particularly anything since 1996.
    3)Other documents which may affect the land rights or building rights, which are held by Land Registry
    Should I also fill out a HC1? It would be useful to get some copies of the register and plan that relate to this property from 1996-now.
    Also do the Local Council hold any documents which relate to individual properties? Especially any which might restrict planning, covenants or restrictions.
    Sorry for such a long question but I would really, REALLY appreciate any help and advice you can give me.
    Thanks for reading and I really hope you can help
    Hope
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 19th May 17, 12:59 PM
    • 39,663 Posts
    • 45,173 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 19th May 17, 12:59 PM
    • #2
    • 19th May 17, 12:59 PM
    You've started with the LR online search yes? So you know what is in the Title, and you know what documents the LT hold?

    http://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/04_Sj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOKNjSxMDA1NjDwsjM3MDT xN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0C7IdFQG9k5Tz/

    In that case list the documents you want on the OC2.

    Have you searched the local authority planning website for the address in question?
    Last edited by G_M; 19-05-2017 at 1:07 PM.
  • Land Registry representative
    • #3
    • 19th May 17, 4:47 PM
    • #3
    • 19th May 17, 4:47 PM
    Form OC2 can be used to apply for a copy of deeds referred to as 'filed' on the register or for a copy of the legal charge for example. As G_M.explains you need to check the register before applying.

    Form HC1 can only be used to acquire an historical edition of the register or title plan. You can't search 1996 onwards.

    If you want a copy of each edition or an idea of what other documents might be available then contact us with the details and we can check and then email you back with the details needed to add to the forms
    http://landregistry.custhelp.com/app/contactus_general/

    You refer to planning as well so before applying for anything it might be worth posting the issue faced on here. It may be that the details you are after are either irrelevant or may not exist?
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Living-in-hope
    • By Living-in-hope 20th May 17, 10:17 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Living-in-hope
    • #4
    • 20th May 17, 10:17 AM
    • #4
    • 20th May 17, 10:17 AM
    Hi G_M and Land Registry representative,
    thanks for replying so quickly! It's very much appreciated!!
    So in reply to your messages I have been on to the eservices Land Registry site website and searched by the Title Number. It returned 3 documents:
    • Title register
    • Title plan
    • Flood Risk Indicator result

    Land Registry Representative you asked for some more details regarding the issues faced, sorry the next part is a bit long but I'm hoping the details might give you some clarity. I would really really appreciate any help I am just starting to understand how complex this area is and feeling lost.

    So I have downloaded the Title Register and Title Plan. When I looked through the Title Register it showed 5 clauses in the Charges Register. The first three are restrictive covenants. They relate to "rights granted by Deed" to third parties it also says that "The said Deed also contains restrictive covenants by the grantor." I would like to find out what is on file because I think based on the paper work I have some of these Agreements have expired and I also want to understand what the restrictive covenants are. Three of the 5 entries show that they are filed under a single number HP. So can I use a OP2 to request these?
    It is the fourth and last clauses that I am most interested as the fourth one states "not to erect any residential properties on the land hereby transferred" While the last clause states that there is an Option to purchase part of the land which is identified in the Title Plan.
    I was aware that there was a restriction on building but my understanding when I bought the land was that the restriction on building residential properties only referred to the part of the land with the Option. I wanted to check to see whether there had been changes made to the Charges Register since I bought the land and fully understand everything that is in the document. I also want to check any other information held and the history of the land since these restrictions were made. If the restriction is valid, I want to understand who is the benefactor of this restriction and understand what interest could be harmed by allowing residential development and how to mitigate any concerns they might have. If they choose, (eg I offer them some money or land) could they remove this restriction? Am I right in thinking it is only the party (of their successor in title) that benefitted from the restriction that could enforce this restriction (or could other neighbours also enforce the restriction despite not being the original benefactors- (obviously this would make things much more costly/difficult)?
    Sorry for the long description and all of the questions. In general, how would you recommend moving forward from this?
    GM thanks for the tip about the Local Authority website!! That has been really useful
    Last edited by Living-in-hope; 20-05-2017 at 5:53 PM.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 20th May 17, 1:17 PM
    • 2,491 Posts
    • 3,263 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #5
    • 20th May 17, 1:17 PM
    • #5
    • 20th May 17, 1:17 PM
    Where did your understanding that the covenant regarding building residential properties only applied to the Option land? That isn't what is implied by the first statement where it refers to the land transferred so if you believe that this is not the case where did that belief come from?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 20th May 17, 5:04 PM
    • 39,663 Posts
    • 45,173 Thanks
    G_M
    • #6
    • 20th May 17, 5:04 PM
    • #6
    • 20th May 17, 5:04 PM

    So I have downloaded the Title Register and Title Plan. When I looked through the Title Register it showed 5 clauses in the Charges Register. The first three are restrictive covenants. They relate to "rights granted by Deed" to third parties
    Originally posted by Living-in-hope
    Does it identify the Deed, and does it state that the Deed is filed at the LR?
    • Living-in-hope
    • By Living-in-hope 21st May 17, 5:37 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Living-in-hope
    • #7
    • 21st May 17, 5:37 AM
    • #7
    • 21st May 17, 5:37 AM
    Hi All,
    Just wrote a very long email in response to you Cakegut but I obviously waited too long before posting just got "Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded. Please push the back button and reload the previous window." I hope you don’t mind the private message asking your advice, not sure I was making sense at when I wrote to you or at this point for that matter... my head is hurting from disappearing down the various legal document 'rabbit holes'. Since writing to you both G_M and Land Registry have given me some really good advice regarding the questions I originally asked you. I think it’s best follow their advice to find out what the official documents say and find out what I’m dealing with, then ask advice from there.
    Last edited by Living-in-hope; 21-05-2017 at 6:21 AM.
    • Living-in-hope
    • By Living-in-hope 21st May 17, 5:59 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Living-in-hope
    • #8
    • 21st May 17, 5:59 AM
    • #8
    • 21st May 17, 5:59 AM
    Hi G_M,
    Thanks for the advice about Local Authority Planning!! That was incredibly useful and I hadn't thought about trying it!!!
    Three of the paragraphs state a specific HP number. "NOTE: Copy filed under HPXXXXXX." the other two just say "NOTE: Copy filed."
    I tried looking for the one with a number on the same eservices website you recommended using advance search and title HPXXXXXX number but couldn't find anything. So my understanding from what you and LRR suggested is that this can be requested using the OC2 form. Is that right?
    The key things I'm trying to work out at the moment are:

    What restrictions were officially entered with Land Registry on the Charges Register originally?
    Are the full documents available from Land Registry?
    How do I get documents which are listed as ‘Copy filed’?
    Have there been any changes or amendments to the Charges Register since the time that each entry was first entered? If there were changes by who, why and when
    Can you suggest anything else I should/could be doing?
    A heartfelt thanks to you all for your helps so far! As a newbie I just wanted to say I am really impressed with the speed and quality of the responses! Wished I'd joined up sooner Hope you are all enjoying your weekend
    Best wishes,
    Hope
    Last edited by Living-in-hope; 21-05-2017 at 6:28 AM.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 21st May 17, 2:12 PM
    • 39,663 Posts
    • 45,173 Thanks
    G_M
    • #9
    • 21st May 17, 2:12 PM
    • #9
    • 21st May 17, 2:12 PM
    Three of the paragraphs state a specific HP number. "NOTE: Copy filed under HPXXXXXX." the other two just say "NOTE: Copy filed."
    Then request these using form OC2

    I tried looking for the one with a number on the same eservices website you recommended using advance search and title HPXXXXXX number but couldn't find anything. So my understanding from what you and LRR suggested is that this can be requested using the OC2 form. Is that right?
    Correct. as you have found, the download options from eservices is limited to Title, Plan and flood Risk.
    The other documents have to e requested in paper form via OC2


    What restrictions were officially entered with Land Registry on the Charges Register originally?
    There should be a date against each entry in the Title Register.

    Are the full documents available from Land Registry?
    If it says 'copy filed', then yes.

    How do I get documents which are listed as ‘Copy filed’?
    OC2

    Have there been any changes or amendments to the Charges Register since the time that each entry was first entered?
    Each entry will have a date. Si if there is an entry with a later date than taht of the entry you are interested in, then yes the Charges Register has clearly been changed/amended since then.

    If there were changes by who, why and when
    Check the entry date. Normally an entry either identifies the Party involved (eg a bank if it's a mortgage charge) or references a document in which case you need to read that document (asuming it is filed)
    Originally posted by Living-in-hope
    .............................................:beer :
  • Land Registry representative
    At this stage it is form OC2 you need to request the 'filed' documents referred to. I veyr much suspect that once they have been read and understood then you will have a much clearer picture of what is involved.

    A few things to consider here as well re your Qs

    It's important to be clear as to whether they are restrictive covenahts or restrictions. On paper they sound very similar but from a registration perspective they are very different. I very much suspect that you are only dealing with restrictive covenants as Restrictions would appear in the B Proprietorship Register and you have made no mention of that section.

    The difference between the B and C register parts helps to distinguish between restrictions and restrictive covenants also and help to answer your other Q around who has the benefit.

    A restrictive covenant runs with the land so the benefiting party will own the benefiting land. The covenanting clause in the deed and the covenants need to be read carefully to understand where the benefiting land is. If that land is intact then identifying the current and therefore benefiting owner is a lot simpler. If that land has been split/sold off then you potentially have multiple parcels of benefiting land and therefore more landowners to deal with - I suspect as you refer to an Option that the covenants may be a lot clearer/specific on this point but you won't know until they have all been read and understood.

    A Restriction restricts the actual owner and doe snot run with the land in the same way as a restrictive covenant. So it restricts the owner in person rather than the land which they own - hope that makes sense.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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