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  • FIRST POST
    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 10:00 AM
    • 91Posts
    • 14Thanks
    JPB156
    We can't afford to live together and have children
    • #1
    • 19th May 17, 10:00 AM
    We can't afford to live together and have children 19th May 17 at 10:00 AM
    Hi have just joined the forum because me and my girlfriend are feeling so low in our situation.

    I am 35 and she is 30 and we have been together for 11 years, we are living with our parents and have been saving for a house, we earn about 34000 between us and have about 2300 a month after tax. We have found a house we both love but house prices are now so stupidly high, it's 190000 and we have a 40000 deposit. We can get a mortgage but we are worried about affording it in the future if interest rates rise, we feel we will be fine for a while but if we are paying anything above 10% we won't be able to do it and how can we put faith in it not going to that rate in the next 30 years.

    We want children and feel time isn't on our side there but if we have one then any savings we have would go on childcare so how would we pay for anything such as a car when ours has given up on us. A cheaper house is an option but there is so little choice in this area and feel if we wait much longer we will be priced out even more, rental prices are just as bad and keep going up aswell and then how do we pay rent after retirement. there is not much prospect of us earning more in the future.

    We just feel so trapped and that we will not only be unable to ever live together but also that means never having children. We feel so low and I've never felt worse, our relationship is so strong but I really feel scared for us and not being able to give her what she wants and deserves.

    Sorry for the long post
Page 4
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 19th May 17, 12:06 PM
    • 1,680 Posts
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    IAmWales
    Wow... sweeping generalisation much??
    That's a very cavalier attitude.


    It might be more common now for women to put off having children until their late 30s/40s for financial/career reasons, but it's by no reason a certainty that they will be able to (and yes, I know it's not a certainty at any age but fertility starts to decline more rapidly after 35)


    http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Fertility/Pages/Protectyourfertility.aspx
    Originally posted by jackieblack
    Either you've misread what I said or you're on drugs. Or both.

    Women do have children into their 40s, it is not a generalisation it is a fact. Yes, fertility declines as you get older but problems can occur at any age. It would be very irresponsible to have a child that you cannot afford simply because it might be a little more difficult to conceive later (and because the NHS will call you geriatric!).

    I'm not suggesting you are irresponsible JPB, quite the opposite. You're considering your options before entering into a (very expensive) lifelong commitment. If your gf wants any reassurance on being an older mum tell her to head over to mumsnet, there are lots of women there in that situation, with the security of having built up career, on their way to paying off their mortgage and more life experience. It's not the easiest, but being a parent isn't at any age!
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 19th May 17, 12:08 PM
    • 1,906 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    The scenario isnt far fetched it's very real for us, and if I'm repeating myself it's because the same questions keep getting asked.

    We don't need to rent together we know our relationship it's not like we have been together for a few months. We have had a lot thrown at us in our time together and have come out stronger than ever
    Originally posted by JPB156
    Every couple should ideally live together for at least a year before they make any big commitments like marriage, mortgage or babies. No matter how long they've been together.
    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 12:09 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JPB156
    So you have this image of because we live with our parents we do nothing for ourselves and leave it all to them. Maybe when we were 17 but we both pay our parents keep, we both do washing., cooking round the house. My parents were in money trouble a few years back and I've helped them through that. We are not a couple of teenagers who get everything on a plate from our parents. Yes I know it will be extra work and responsibility on our own but we both know each other inside out, she knows me better than I do. And we know we can cook and will keep the house tidy
    • meer53
    • By meer53 19th May 17, 12:12 PM
    • 8,950 Posts
    • 12,989 Thanks
    meer53
    FGS ! Move in together and live your lives instead of worrying about stuff that may never happen. You've already wasted over 10 years ! When my ex and i first moved in together we had about a fiver between us to last the week when all the bills were paid, looking back it was hard but we did it and got through it, we weren't worrying about how we would manage in retirement ! We eventually bought a house and had kids, it all comes with time, if you worry about it you'll never do it. Getting what you want isn't always possible, you might not buy a house, you might not have kids, life is for living, not waiting till everything is in place.
    • Livelongandprosper
    • By Livelongandprosper 19th May 17, 12:15 PM
    • 549 Posts
    • 1,636 Thanks
    Livelongandprosper
    So you have this image of because we live with our parents we do nothing for ourselves and leave it all to them. Maybe when we were 17 but we both pay our parents keep, we both do washing., cooking round the house. My parents were in money trouble a few years back and I've helped them through that. We are not a couple of teenagers who get everything on a plate from our parents. Yes I know it will be extra work and responsibility on our own but we both know each other inside out, she knows me better than I do. And we know we can cook and will keep the house tidy
    Originally posted by JPB156
    Oh if only that was all it took to run a home, would save us an awful lot of work and money that's for sure

    Seriously, you are definitely 35?

    Because the more you post, the more you sound like a teenager

    You are 35 and don't know about WTC/CTC/HB? Even I, who have never claimed any of the above know off them and where to find the information on how much can be claimed
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 19th May 17, 12:15 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,764 Thanks
    Guest101
    So you have this image of because we live with our parents we do nothing for ourselves and leave it all to them. - Have you ever had to get a quote from a builder? Have you had to pay utilities, council tax etc, and shop around for the best deals? Have you had to plan weekly meals, cook atleast twice a day, clean house from top to bottom, whilst having almost no sleep due to a newborn? Maybe when we were 17 but we both pay our parents keep, we both do washing., cooking round the house. - That's not running a house. My parents were in money trouble a few years back and I've helped them through that. We are not a couple of teenagers who get everything on a plate from our parents. - no-one is saying that. But ultimately it's not your house. You aren't responsible if it needs a new roof! Yes I know it will be extra work and responsibility on our own but we both know each other inside out, she knows me better than I do. And we know we can cook and will keep the house tidy
    Originally posted by JPB156


    This is pointless now I think. Goodluck !
    • Sambella
    • By Sambella 19th May 17, 12:19 PM
    • 346 Posts
    • 322 Thanks
    Sambella
    At that level of income you may well get help with childcare costs

    https://www.gov.uk/childcare-calculator

    There are also childcare vouchers if your workplaces offers them

    If your partner was to go part time after having a child you would also likely get tax credits and child tax credits.
    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 12:21 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JPB156
    I know what benefits there are but it doesn't seem like we would get any.

    And yes I know it's not the same as living on your own but no one is going to replicate it until it actually happens. But whether we can do it was never part of my question and renting doesn't solve anything.

    Oh and if my parents house did need a new roof I probably would be responsible as they wouldn't afford it
    • jackieblack
    • By jackieblack 19th May 17, 12:24 PM
    • 7,315 Posts
    • 9,902 Thanks
    jackieblack
    Either you've misread what I said or you're on drugs. Or both.
    Originally posted by IAmWales

    You said
    If your partner is only 30 she has many child bearing years ahead of her
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    This may potentially be true, if she is fortunate, but is by no means a certainty and you can't possibly know that for sure.


    And the only drugs I've taken in the last 20 years are of the variety used to try and increase fertility
    Last edited by jackieblack; 19-05-2017 at 12:29 PM.
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    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 12:27 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JPB156
    That's another problem I have which I didn't want to post and why we feel rushed, but I was told last year I have a low count
    • Livelongandprosper
    • By Livelongandprosper 19th May 17, 12:29 PM
    • 549 Posts
    • 1,636 Thanks
    Livelongandprosper
    I know what benefits there are but it doesn't seem like we would get any.

    And yes I know it's not the same as living on your own but no one is going to replicate it until it actually happens. But whether we can do it was never part of my question and renting doesn't solve anything.

    Oh and if my parents house did need a new roof I probably would be responsible as they wouldn't afford it
    Originally posted by JPB156

    I just made up some details. You 35, her 30, two kids under 5 , you only working, 18k a year, and guess what? Nearly 6k in benefits

    I didn't add housing costs nor childcare. Add them in, jackpot
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 19th May 17, 12:33 PM
    • 5,693 Posts
    • 27,979 Thanks
    bugslet
    Stop waffling, go and get a cheaper than 190 house, fix at ten years.

    Things comes along, some good, some bad, and you just handle them. If it's bad, then you get another job or a second job, you start cycling to work.

    There are no definites, if you are waiting for some, it's a long wait.
    • arbrighton
    • By arbrighton 19th May 17, 12:42 PM
    • 1,934 Posts
    • 1,789 Thanks
    arbrighton
    The scenario isnt far fetched it's very real for us, and if I'm repeating myself it's because the same questions keep getting asked.

    We don't need to rent together we know our relationship it's not like we have been together for a few months. We have had a lot thrown at us in our time together and have come out stronger than ever
    Originally posted by JPB156
    You might think you do but really, it changes when you live together. And again, even more when there's a child in the picture. You don't have to rent forever, just a while, to see how it goes, and iif you can cope with it.

    You have every excuse going for why it's not happened yet.

    Noone has a crystal ball but most of us actually get on with it at some point
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 19th May 17, 12:42 PM
    • 3,321 Posts
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    Malthusian
    OP - you seem to spend a lot of time worrying about how you'd pay rent in retirement if you didn't get on the housing ladder.

    If you weren't saving for a house, you could have put that £40,000 in a pension instead. The pension would be invested for long-term growth from day 1, whereas deposits are usually saved up in cash. (People don't want to risk the market crashing when they want to buy a house, but this means they are running to stand still for as long as they are saving up for the deposit.)

    Owning your own house is 20% more expensive than renting according to the FT. That 20% saved by renting could also go into a pension plan.

    Pensions grow tax free, just as a house grows in value. But while imputed rental income and gains on the primary residence are tax free, there is stamp duty and other moving costs to take into account.

    Yes, that 20% figure is very debatable, but it is clear that if you didn't buy a house you could have more in your pension, which would help cover the cost of renting in retirement. That doesn't mean I would advise anyone to not bother buying a house and to save enough money to rent in retirement instead. It just means that not buying a house does not in itself mean you face ruin in retirement.

    If, on the other hand, instead of putting money into buying a house or saving for retirement you spend it all, that would lead to a very straitened retirement. But I don't think that's likely in your case. As an investment a house has many advantages and also disadvantages, like any other. It is certainly not the case that once you're on the housing ladder you can kick back and relax in retirement knowing your pension only has to cover your food bills. Houses are expensive and need maintenance, redecoration and repair, even after the mortgage has been paid off.

    I think you spend too much time trying to invent future problems. Focus on the present issues. Do you want this house or not?
    • arbrighton
    • By arbrighton 19th May 17, 12:42 PM
    • 1,934 Posts
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    arbrighton
    That's another problem I have which I didn't want to post and why we feel rushed, but I was told last year I have a low count
    Originally posted by JPB156
    So stop faffing about and get on with it then
    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 12:43 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JPB156
    None of this was my original reason for posting, maybe I should have left my personal current feelings about our position out of it but that was the reason I turned to a forum. Basically I was asking advice on if 150000 mortgage on our salary was asking for trouble or a normal ratio, from a couple with no experience of Bill prices and not much scope to earn more. No one has really answered that
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 19th May 17, 12:44 PM
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    pollypenny
    Someone is making excuses.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

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    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 12:46 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JPB156
    Someone is judging someone without knowing them
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 19th May 17, 12:53 PM
    • 5,693 Posts
    • 27,979 Thanks
    bugslet
    None of this was my original reason for posting, maybe I should have left my personal current feelings about our position out of it but that was the reason I turned to a forum. Basically I was asking advice on if 150000 mortgage on our salary was asking for trouble or a normal ratio, from a couple with no experience of Bill prices and not much scope to earn more. No one has really answered that
    Originally posted by JPB156
    Yes. Question answered.

    The problem is you are asking about what if and what mighta nd that is where people are jumping in.

    Do just get on with it.
    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 12:54 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JPB156
    I don't understand why I would even be posting if I was making excuses and didn't actually want it to happen, if that was the case where would my problem be
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