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    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 10:00 AM
    • 85Posts
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    JPB156
    We can't afford to live together and have children
    • #1
    • 19th May 17, 10:00 AM
    We can't afford to live together and have children 19th May 17 at 10:00 AM
    Hi have just joined the forum because me and my girlfriend are feeling so low in our situation.

    I am 35 and she is 30 and we have been together for 11 years, we are living with our parents and have been saving for a house, we earn about 34000 between us and have about 2300 a month after tax. We have found a house we both love but house prices are now so stupidly high, it's 190000 and we have a 40000 deposit. We can get a mortgage but we are worried about affording it in the future if interest rates rise, we feel we will be fine for a while but if we are paying anything above 10% we won't be able to do it and how can we put faith in it not going to that rate in the next 30 years.

    We want children and feel time isn't on our side there but if we have one then any savings we have would go on childcare so how would we pay for anything such as a car when ours has given up on us. A cheaper house is an option but there is so little choice in this area and feel if we wait much longer we will be priced out even more, rental prices are just as bad and keep going up aswell and then how do we pay rent after retirement. there is not much prospect of us earning more in the future.

    We just feel so trapped and that we will not only be unable to ever live together but also that means never having children. We feel so low and I've never felt worse, our relationship is so strong but I really feel scared for us and not being able to give her what she wants and deserves.

    Sorry for the long post
Page 13
    • balletshoes
    • By balletshoes 19th May 17, 10:54 PM
    • 15,726 Posts
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    balletshoes
    It would be 600 for first 5 years but would quickly double if interest rates return to more normal levels
    Originally posted by JPB156
    Can I join the queue of people giving you a good shake OP? More normal levels? As others on this thread have already pointed out, the "norm" for the last 8 years has been pretty much what you'd be starting out paying.
    We've had our mortgage for 13 years, we didn't start off, or have since, paid double what we are paying now. At the very most, it went to about £150 a month more than we currently pay. You cut your cloth, and tighten your belts if you need to - just as you do if theres an unexpected bill, or the car needs repairs one month. This is no different.

    Yes its a big leap of faith, but as many many folk have already said on this thread, no-one - NO-ONE - knows what may or may not happen with mortgage interest rates, or anything else, in 30 years time.

    If you're had an agreement in principle from a mortgage company, you can afford the house, and you can afford the house if the interest rates rise a bit. Thats all the assurance anyone can give you, now, tomorrow, in 5 years, 10 years, 30 years time.
    • cte1111
    • By cte1111 19th May 17, 11:18 PM
    • 7,055 Posts
    • 368,282 Thanks
    cte1111
    Doing a budget as accurate as we can says we can squeeze mortgage to about 1100 but so why do they say it shout be 40% max
    Originally posted by JPB156
    The '40% max' ideal is to allow for possible changes, so if interest rates do rise, or other circumstances change, then you have some comfort room.

    I can understand your anxiety, as you have looked at a possible scenario where you might struggle, but there is always going to be a chance that you could end up in financial trouble, whatever you do.

    I think you need to leave the thread for now, have a good night's sleep and have a chat with a trusted friend or family member tomorrow. You and your partner have obviously worked hard to save a good deposit, you've both got what sound like stable jobs and families that care about you. You've got a lot to celebrate.
    • JPB156
    • By JPB156 19th May 17, 11:39 PM
    • 85 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    JPB156
    My ambition in my job is irrelevant, working up doesn't pay much more I know it's weird but that's how it is I've looked into it and I've looked at changing career and anything that pays more requires different skills to the ones I have gained. I will keep looking for it but I cannot base the decision on the assumption it will happen
    • Hermia
    • By Hermia 19th May 17, 11:45 PM
    • 4,033 Posts
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    Hermia
    My ambition in my job is irrelevant, working up doesn't pay much more I know it's weird but that's how it is I've looked into it and I've looked at changing career and anything that pays more requires different skills to the ones I have gained. I will keep looking for it but I cannot base the decision on the assumption it will happen
    Originally posted by JPB156
    You really do need to get a bit more of a positive attitude to life! Many people change career in life for many different reasons. These days very few people will be in one job for their whole career. You can also do bits and pieces on the side (ebay, blogging, hobby-related careers). They may only bring in a small amount, but will allow you to pay off a mortgage sooner. I know plenty of people who do things like that these days.
    • arbrighton
    • By arbrighton 20th May 17, 8:04 AM
    • 1,932 Posts
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    arbrighton
    My ambition in my job is irrelevant, working up doesn't pay much more I know it's weird but that's how it is I've looked into it and I've looked at changing career and anything that pays more requires different skills to the ones I have gained. I will keep looking for it but I cannot base the decision on the assumption it will happen
    Originally posted by JPB156
    Oh another excuse.

    LOADS of people retrain now. A lot have to due to redundancy, some choose to make a change for their own happiness, some for career prospects.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 20th May 17, 8:31 AM
    • 8,727 Posts
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    meer53
    OP wake up and smell the coffee ! Stop overthinking and DO something.
    • Rosieandjim
    • By Rosieandjim 20th May 17, 8:52 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    Rosieandjim
    This is painful to read. I am amazed you still have a girlfriend. If you really wanted to live together and have a family you would have done it by now. Maybe watch the programme 'How to live mortgage free' and take some ideas about alternative living.
    • Diary
    • By Diary 20th May 17, 10:24 AM
    • 530 Posts
    • 658 Thanks
    Diary
    I feel like the only one with this view but...This is utterly ridiculous.
    You haven't lived together properly and already, after being together a very, very short time, want to buy a house with your girlfriend. You don't earn enough to buy a house and, as you barely know each other and never lived together, you must think how you'd afford it alone when you split up.

    When my husband and I were first married both sets of parents told us to overpay our mortgage and not save. We did this and paid off our mortgage many years earlier than it should have been. Due to several unexpected really nasty things not of our making we now find ourselves on benefits living in a house without heating or hot water for over 3 years because its not rented and we can't afford repair.

    Don't do it.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 20th May 17, 10:35 AM
    • 5,408 Posts
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    p00hsticks
    after being together a very, very short time
    Originally posted by Diary
    According to the OP they've been together for ELEVEN YEARS.

    How much longer do you think they need ?
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 20th May 17, 11:12 AM
    • 3,007 Posts
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    onomatopoeia99
    Lots of people saying "live together first". Go back to my parents' generation and what they did was live with their parents until they got married, move in together, possibly in the home of one or other set of parents, perhaps rented or perhaps buying a house striaght away depending on circumstances. Living together unmarried wasn't a thing, it was called "living in sin" in those days.

    My parents have been married 52 years btw, so it worked for them. I don't think "you haven't lived together yet" is any kind of reason not to buy a house together, especially not after eleven years of a relationship.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • warby68
    • By warby68 20th May 17, 11:21 AM
    • 752 Posts
    • 8,431 Thanks
    warby68
    Assuming this is real (and I'm not convinced) , then my take is as follows.

    For someone so scarily risk averse, with no confidence that their financial prospects will improve, so little engagement with 'real' independent life despite being 35, and a desire to have children you should NOT be buying at the outer edges of affordability which is what your dream house represents.

    You should consider something like this - buying at around £100k with an 80% mortgage , leaving £20k of your savings for some of your 'what if' scenarios and having a mortgage commitment about half of your current plan.

    You also need to admit (if only to yourself and urgently) why you are so scared to engage with real life. At 35, with a partner of 11 years, still living separately with parents you are not exactly Mr Average. If there are some genuine educational or health reasons why you can't get a grip on bills and make decisions, I'm sorry but if this is the case it needs to be factored into your plans.

    If, on the other hand, it boils down to wanting champagne lifestyle on minimum wage and being frustrated that you can't, then you need to up your income or lower your expectations.

    If , on the third (!) hand , you're just an unmotivated plodder, maybe let your girlfriend take charge and follow her lead?

    Not read every post, but what on earth are your respective parents doing/saying about all this?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 20th May 17, 12:09 PM
    • 10,385 Posts
    • 14,223 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Lots of people saying "live together first". Go back to my parents' generation and what they did was live with their parents until they got married, move in together, possibly in the home of one or other set of parents, perhaps rented or perhaps buying a house striaght away depending on circumstances. Living together unmarried wasn't a thing, it was called "living in sin" in those days.

    My parents have been married 52 years btw, so it worked for them. I don't think "you haven't lived together yet" is any kind of reason not to buy a house together, especially not after eleven years of a relationship.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the OP. The question isn't whether or not the OP and his girlfriend of 11 years should get married before living together. It's two full grown adults still living at home with their respective parents in their 30s....dithering.

    As for going straight from living with parents to being married....great it worked out for your parents. It didn't work out for everyone. In fact the number of over-60s getting divorced dubbed the "silver splitters" is increasing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34767821

    In reality the OP and his girlfriend should have flown the nest years ago. They could have rented or bought a 1 or 2 bedroom flat to get started like millions of others do. Instead it's been years of living with parents when they could have been quoting Milton, eating Stilton and rolling around with gay abandon on the tufted Wilton.
    Last edited by Pixie5740; 20-05-2017 at 12:15 PM.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 20th May 17, 1:29 PM
    • 2,347 Posts
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    gettingtheresometime
    I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the OP. The question isn't whether or not the OP and his girlfriend of 11 years should get married before living together. It's two full grown adults still living at home with their respective parents in their 30s....dithering.

    As for going straight from living with parents to being married....great it worked out for your parents. It didn't work out for everyone. In fact the number of over-60s getting divorced dubbed the "silver splitters" is increasing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34767821

    In reality the OP and his girlfriend should have flown the nest years ago. They could have rented or bought a 1 or 2 bedroom flat to get started like millions of others do. Instead it's been years of living with parents when they could have been quoting Milton, eating Stilton and rolling around with gay abandon on the tufted Wilton.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I agree with you but I suspect that when the subject of renting came up (I assume) years ago, they were told not to be so daft, renting is a waste of money and to stay at home & save for a deposit.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


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    • davidwood123
    • By davidwood123 20th May 17, 1:52 PM
    • 335 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    davidwood123
    Lots of people saying "live together first". Go back to my parents' generation and what they did was live with their parents until they got married, move in together, possibly in the home of one or other set of parents, perhaps rented or perhaps buying a house striaght away depending on circumstances. Living together unmarried wasn't a thing, it was called "living in sin" in those days.

    My parents have been married 52 years btw, so it worked for them. I don't think "you haven't lived together yet" is any kind of reason not to buy a house together, especially not after eleven years of a relationship.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Doesn't work nowadays.

    Different times and different attitudes towards divorce.

    They NEED to live together
    • Hermia
    • By Hermia 20th May 17, 2:06 PM
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    • 10,514 Thanks
    Hermia
    I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the OP. The question isn't whether or not the OP and his girlfriend of 11 years should get married before living together. It's two full grown adults still living at home with their respective parents in their 30s....dithering.

    As for going straight from living with parents to being married....great it worked out for your parents. It didn't work out for everyone. In fact the number of over-60s getting divorced dubbed the "silver splitters" is increasing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34767821
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    A lot of the older people I know do actually think living together is a good idea because of their memories of early married life. Or they remember friends who realised they had nothing in common with their OH when they got married & started living together. Gender roles were also a lot more rigid back then so people went into marriage knowing what their role was (whether they liked it or not). These days it is so different and a person's attitude to gender roles often only emerges when you live with them.

    I also think the OP and GF should try renting together because they have been together so long without living together. I have noticed a trend for couples who have meandered along for years to break up the moment they begin living together or marry! I think maybe these relationships always had underlying issues, but they were not noticeable whilst everything was fairly casual.
    • Lunar Eclipse
    • By Lunar Eclipse 20th May 17, 2:20 PM
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    Lunar Eclipse
    I say go for it - you're over analysing the situation with 'what ifs' and obviously have a sensible attitude when it comes from money given your current living arrangements, savings and decent jobs.

    We had a 252k mortgage with a single earner on 40k (which equated to less take home than yours) and 2 young children about 15 years ago, when interest rates were much higher. The base rate is virtually zero, so although there is only one way it can go, 10% is statistically very unlikely, especially in the short-medium term.

    If you both want children, I would get on with it all now; the clock keeps ticking. Tomorrow will look after itself.
    • Lunar Eclipse
    • By Lunar Eclipse 20th May 17, 2:28 PM
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    Lunar Eclipse
    Doesn't work nowadays.

    Different times and different attitudes towards divorce.

    They NEED to live together
    Originally posted by davidwood123
    Generally speaking yes, times and attitudes have changed, but there are people who believe in traditional values regarding marriage and divorce to negate the 'need' for living together. Anyone marrying in Church shouldn't believe divorce is an option really.

    And although I did personally, probably because we were young, you don't need to live with someone first in order for a relationship to survive (and thrive.) It is the more common order of things though.
    • trix-a-belle
    • By trix-a-belle 20th May 17, 2:31 PM
    • 683 Posts
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    trix-a-belle
    It would be 600 for first 5 years but would quickly double if interest rates return to more normal levels
    Originally posted by JPB156
    i've through the whole thread and probably shouldn't reply due to frustration but i can still the glimmer of what you want to do but are worrying about. apologies if it comes off a little blunt but i have just spurted out all my thoughts following reading the thread

    first; this post stuck out to me, what are normal interest levels? thats like asking who is normal, there is no normal! [i think you are taking this 20 year high they have given you as normal, don't.]
    I bought my house nearly 10 years ago just before the last crash & when rates were far more than they are now & i'm still standing, i'm now looking at moving & trying to consider the future and futureproof myself but i haven't got a crystal ball so i'm being realistic and considering advice given to me it just comes down to if i can sell my current place and find a new place of the right size for the budget.

    I get that you are trying to think of all the angles but you are fixing some aspects (your salary & apparently your position, not sure about you but i couldn't do the same job for the next 30+ years i plan on taking opportunities that come up which will grow my experience, salary and employability) and considering others as dynamic (interest rates, house prices [apparently in only a downward direction]), they are all dynamic therefore just look at the situation at the moment for all factors otherwise you are just making excuses to avoid taking the step however you try and dress it up as 'planning'. You can not predict the future.

    now where on earth you are getting 10% from, if rates went up and were at 10% immediately after you got out of a 5 year fix (lets call it 2022 assuming you buy this place while your aip is valid) the bank of england would have to be putting it up in big chunks at a time or be getting a wiggle on to do small frequent rises and there is nothing suggesting either any time soon from what i've seen, additionally if this were the case there would be plenty of people up sh*t creek well before you got there, this is stuff that is taken into account every month when they consider whether to raise the base rate or not

    yes house prices are higher than they were but the last crash was relatively recent, they will go up more, there might be another crash but if you don't buy now and dither longer you will be in a worse position if you later decide to take the plunge unless you wait until prices crash but do you really want to stay living with your parents until something that may never come. yes taking on a mortgage is a risk but its one tonnes of people do, people also get in a car every day which my great uncle who was a driving instructor rightly told people is a deadly weapon. you have a seriously healthy deposit there and are in a far better situation than many others willing to take the risk of getting a mortgage, and are not stretching things to unrealistic levels as everything currently stands. just get on and do it. if we avoided all risks we would be hidden in a cupboard wrapped in cotton wool & what life is that, you have to take a little risk to get anywhere, even getting out of bed in the morning.

    so repeat after me; I do not have a crystal ball, we are in a very good position and there are lots of people who would struggle before me, I will take opportunities to grow, better myself and improve my position.

    i'm also inclined to agree with others that you should go out and rent together for a couple of months to get a grasp of day to day living expenses and have your own space together for a little while as living with parents will have likely dulled any joy a little & i am someone who doesn't believe in renting saying that.
    (fyi in case you would like to take on board someone elses monthly figures; my monthly bills for me + a housemate in a 4 bed house are £280 + my food shopping is about £140 a month for me [cooking for 1 is not cost effective] & i put away £120 a month for big annual bills such as insurances, car tax, tv license, boiler service etc = £540/month, i switch services when required but not to obsessive levels, treat myself and do have the heating up rather than putting on extra layers sometimes

    also; ok you may apparently be 'less than optimal' but if you stress about it and dwell on it, it definitely won't happen. what is meant to be will happen so just enjoy the road getting there

    eta: the whole after retirement thing is another example of not having a crystal ball, the criteria will not be the same then so why scare yourself about not being able to afford to pay rent/mortgage then now
    Last edited by trix-a-belle; 20-05-2017 at 4:44 PM.
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    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 20th May 17, 3:08 PM
    • 3,251 Posts
    • 2,477 Thanks
    sheramber
    My ambition in my job is irrelevant, working up doesn't pay much more I know it's weird but that's how it is I've looked into it and I've looked at changing career and anything that pays more requires different skills to the ones I have gained. I will keep looking for it but I cannot base the decision on the assumption it will happen
    Originally posted by JPB156
    Then look into gaining these skills- night school, hobbies that will give you the skills.

    My husband started work as an apprentice electrician in the coal mines.
    He went to night school to study electronics and got a job working for an electronics firm. He ended up being business development manager.

    Some body who wants to get on will find a way to do so.
    • pinkduvetdiva
    • By pinkduvetdiva 20th May 17, 3:10 PM
    • 345 Posts
    • 503 Thanks
    pinkduvetdiva
    OP, due to circumstances beyond my control, I bloomed later than you, but holy cow! You've been with your partner for 11 years and are still at home with your parents when you have a deposit and a mortgage agreed in principle! That's not good.

    You're absolutely right to do your research regarding the house market, but you're now overthinking things. You need to do something. Life is too short to spend time worrying about what might or might not happen.

    Rent a place for a while - that way you'll really get to know each other's "home ethic" and if things don't work out after that, it's fairly easy to disentangle.

    Plan your route. Will the journey be smooth, or will there be something blocking your path? Will you have to turn back and choose a different path? How could you make your journey easier? Nobody on here could possibly know - the only way to find out is by taking that first step forward.
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