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  • FIRST POST
    • Mutton Geoff
    • By Mutton Geoff 18th May 17, 10:09 PM
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    Mutton Geoff
    Chrysotile - now what?
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 10:09 PM
    Chrysotile - now what? 18th May 17 at 10:09 PM
    I'm in the process of doing a large amount of renovation on my (mainly 1950s) house and need to remove the ceiling of the garage to replace it with fireline/double plasterboard as I'm converting the room above into an ensuite. At the same time as chatting to my builder working on other parts of the house, I took a sample of the ceiling material and sent it off to a lab. The builder recommended a local asbestos removal firm he uses a lot who came and had a look the next day.


    The surveyor said, in his experience, it was definitely asbestos insulation board which cost more to remove. There is also the same material in the utility room which is going to be rebuilt. He measured up, explained the process to remove it etc and quoted £6,000 plus VAT.


    The next day, my sample test was emailed back and they confirmed it is chrysotile which is not the same as asbestos insulation board.


    My local tip will accept the material and just said I should wrap and tape it up. At the same time I asked the original firm to requote based on the "easier" job of the lesser risk material and waiting for that quote. They don't sound happy about the new report and asked to see copies of it which I sent.


    I'm a very experienced DIYer, self builder etc and happy to suit up, wet it and take the stuff down (utility room easy, it's screwed to the joists, the garage harder as it's nailed up). Any thoughts on whether I should be doing this or getting other quotes? The garage is a double with approx 35 sq m, the utility around 15 sq m.


    Any thoughts from experienced asbestos folk?


    PS I witnessed my grandad dying of asbestosis so I don't fancy following him!








    Compensations/Refunds from Banks & Institutions - £3,435 | Stooz Profits - £7,636 | Quidco - £3,903

    All with a big thank you to Martin and MSE.com from Mutton Geoff!
Page 1
    • MisterP123
    • By MisterP123 18th May 17, 10:52 PM
    • 157 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    MisterP123
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 10:52 PM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 10:52 PM
    You're a bit confused about what you're asking I think.

    Chrysotile is asbestos (commonly known as white asbestos) and can be used in asbestos insulation board. There's lots of arguments over the danger of white asbestos but nothing changes the fact that AIB is fibrous.

    There's a chap on here (I forget his username) who has a wealth of knowledge on asbestos removal and will no doubt be a much greater help than me.
    • MisterP123
    • By MisterP123 18th May 17, 11:00 PM
    • 157 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    MisterP123
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 11:00 PM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 11:00 PM
    And just to add, I think AIB is licensed work depending on the duration, whereas asbestos cement board is non-licensed.. but I look forward to being proved wrong.

    Edit to try and explain a bit further:

    Chrysotile is asbestos, it can be found in asbestos insulation board and asbestos cement board. (among millions of other places)

    AIB is fibrous, meaning the asbestos fibres will be released when disturbed. ACB is not particularly fibrous, meaning it's pretty safe to remove as long as you don't do it with a grinder and a sledge hammer.

    What you've got is a report saying you have a particular type of asbestos. It could well (and probably is as they're two completely different things) asbestos insulation board.
    Last edited by MisterP123; 18-05-2017 at 11:14 PM.
    • Mutton Geoff
    • By Mutton Geoff 18th May 17, 11:38 PM
    • 805 Posts
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    Mutton Geoff
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 11:38 PM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 11:38 PM
    Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific. The report says:

    Asbestos Fibre Type - Chrysotile

    Presumptive Product Type - Cement product

    Approximate Asbestos Content of Asbestos Products. Information extracted from Health & Safety Executive Document HSG 264

    Cement products:
    Cladding: 10 % to 15 %
    Compressed sheet: 10 % to 25 %

    Asbestos Cement is considered to be of a low fibre release risk. It is classed by the HSE as a non licensed material and therefore does not require the use of an HSE licensed contractor to carry out work on it or remove it.

    Whilst it is in a good condition and in a position where it will remain undisturbed it may be left in situ and should not pose a risk to health.

    Removal or work upon this material should be carried out by a suitably trained person with cat b asbestos training. This material should be removed, where possible, in one piece. If this is not possible then it should be broken rather than cut.

    During work upon or removal of this material light dampening of surfaces is advisable in order to suppress any asbestos fibres that may become airborne. Water is suitable for this.

    Although airborne fibre release levels when working with this material will usually be below HSE control limits, the use of Respiratory Protective Equipment (RPE) and Personnel Protective Equipment (PPE) whilst working upon it should be used when disturbing it.

    This material when removed must be disposed of as hazardous waste in line with the Hazardous Waste Regulations 2005.
    All work on materials containing asbestos must conform to the Control of Asbestos Regulation 2012

    Application; Profiled or flat sheeting, pipes, guttering, tanks and other moulded products

    Location; Roofing and cladding sheets, ceiling tiles, soffits, decorative infill panels i.e. solid glazing (may be plastic or enamel coated) fire door linings, service ducts as shuttering or linings, heater/boiler flue pipes, rainwater guttering and down pipes, sewerage and vent pipes, cold water storage tanks, window boards, w.c. cisterns etc.

    Appearance; Usually light grey, dense and brittle. However window boards and w.c. cisterns are usually black and referred to as a resin composite.

    Asbestos Content; Typically 12-15% mainly Chrysotile (White asbestos). Older products such as roofing/cladding sheets may also contain Crocidolite (Blue asbestos).

    Other Information; Probably the most abundant of ACMs. The asbestos is usually firmly bonded into the cement matrix, but may be released when severe damage is sustained or where deterioration of the cement occurs e.g. weathering of the external side of roofing sheets).
    Compensations/Refunds from Banks & Institutions - £3,435 | Stooz Profits - £7,636 | Quidco - £3,903

    All with a big thank you to Martin and MSE.com from Mutton Geoff!
    • MisterP123
    • By MisterP123 19th May 17, 9:07 AM
    • 157 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    MisterP123
    • #5
    • 19th May 17, 9:07 AM
    • #5
    • 19th May 17, 9:07 AM
    Presumptive Product Type - Cement product
    Originally posted by Mutton Geoff
    There's the difference, cement board is a complete different ball game to insulation board.

    Keep in mind that the lab has only had a small sample and have "presumed" it is cement board. Do you have photos of the product in question?
    • Jonesya
    • By Jonesya 20th May 17, 8:41 AM
    • 1,258 Posts
    • 785 Thanks
    Jonesya
    • #6
    • 20th May 17, 8:41 AM
    • #6
    • 20th May 17, 8:41 AM
    You mention needing to replace the asbestos board with fireline or double plasterboard for a new en-suite. What's currently above the garage?

    Coming at the problem from a different angle - is the asbestos board providing fire protection already, does it need removing?
    • Mutton Geoff
    • By Mutton Geoff 20th May 17, 10:39 PM
    • 805 Posts
    • 614 Thanks
    Mutton Geoff
    • #7
    • 20th May 17, 10:39 PM
    • #7
    • 20th May 17, 10:39 PM
    You mention needing to replace the asbestos board with fireline or double plasterboard for a new en-suite. What's currently above the garage?

    Coming at the problem from a different angle - is the asbestos board providing fire protection already, does it need removing?
    Originally posted by Jonesya


    The garage is built as part of and on the end of the house. The floor above was a dressing room accessed from the master bedroom but never made into an ensuite, I guess, because of lack of soil pipe. I've recently had some driveway work done and had a soil pipe run to that room, so now, once I've run hot, cold and heating pipe feeds across to the room, then I can convert. The ceiling is already out and being insulated, re plaster boarded.


    I am tempted to overboard it but thought it might be better to remove any trace of asbestos for future sale value rather than sandwiching it in. Not spoken to building regs yet but as the room was already in a habitable part of the house, I'm not sure how interested they would be.


    I've now removed a large section of panel from the roof of the boiler room that I am opening out into a new utility room. The sheet (approx. 70cm by 150cm and 10mm thick) was extremely heavy leading me to think it is predominantly cement construction.
    Compensations/Refunds from Banks & Institutions - £3,435 | Stooz Profits - £7,636 | Quidco - £3,903

    All with a big thank you to Martin and MSE.com from Mutton Geoff!
    • Mutton Geoff
    • By Mutton Geoff 20th May 17, 10:40 PM
    • 805 Posts
    • 614 Thanks
    Mutton Geoff
    • #8
    • 20th May 17, 10:40 PM
    • #8
    • 20th May 17, 10:40 PM
    There's the difference, cement board is a complete different ball game to insulation board.

    Keep in mind that the lab has only had a small sample and have "presumed" it is cement board. Do you have photos of the product in question?
    Originally posted by MisterP123

    Will post some pics as soon as.
    Compensations/Refunds from Banks & Institutions - £3,435 | Stooz Profits - £7,636 | Quidco - £3,903

    All with a big thank you to Martin and MSE.com from Mutton Geoff!
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