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  • FIRST POST
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 18th May 17, 5:14 PM
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    Doc N
    Conundrum: Pedestrians on a narrow country road with no footpaths - who gives way?
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 5:14 PM
    Conundrum: Pedestrians on a narrow country road with no footpaths - who gives way? 18th May 17 at 5:14 PM
    Outside towns and cities, but often just outside quite well populated villages, there are roads with no footpaths, just not particularly easily accessible verges.

    It's a sunny day on a quiet road, with not much traffic. You're driving a car - you spot a couple of pedestrians out for a walk and coming towards you. There are two of them, side by side, on your side of the road, but having seen you they move into single file.

    It's a narrow road, just about wide enough for two vehicles, there's another car coming towards you, and you expect the pedestrians to get off the road, onto the verge, to allow you to continue your journey without having to stop. But they don't - they just carry on walking single file.

    What do you do?

    1 Stop before you reach the pedestrians to allow the other car to pass safely.

    2 Blast your horn at the pedestrians to get them to move out of the way.

    3 Carry on regardless and take a chance on brushing against the pedestrians?

    Real life situation - I see it every day. What's the correct answer? An increasing number of drivers seem not to know what it is.
    Last edited by Doc N; 18-05-2017 at 8:24 PM.
Page 3
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 19th May 17, 1:43 PM
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    Gloomendoom
    I think pedestrians shouldn't have to move, if they do it's "nice".....

    However, I do think they should not be walking with their back to approaching cars:
    Originally posted by Strider590

    A Finnish study found that the "mean effect of facing traffic compared to walking with traffic was a 77% decrease in fatal and in non-fatal injury pedestrian accidents."

    Source
    Last edited by Gloomendoom; 19-05-2017 at 1:46 PM.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 19th May 17, 2:40 PM
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    Strider590
    A Finnish study found that the "mean effect of facing traffic compared to walking with traffic was a 77% decrease in fatal and in non-fatal injury pedestrian accidents."

    Source
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom

    Walking facing traffic affords the ability to see traffic and be ready for it, especially in those situations where you might step around something or trip trying to, just as a bus comes barrelling past.

    The only danger I can see is drivers who think it's wrong and deliberately close pass to "teach the pedestrian a lesson". These "myway code enforcers" are becoming increasingly and worryingly common.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 19th May 17, 5:28 PM
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    Robisere
    Living in rural Lincolnshire, there are rural activities. One of those is horse riding and a small minority are a complete PITA. I have no objection to horse riding per se: however, there are two women locally who insist upon riding out at atime when the many commuters in both directions, are going to and from work. They use the local A road and they ride two abreast. The effect upon people returning home after a long commute, is of course an increase in annoyance, followed in some cases by an exchange of heated words.

    The really exasperating factor, is that there are many bridle paths, public rights of way, footpaths and country lanes around the area, which would be ideal for these idiots to take their horses in safety. Most drivers in our area are used to horses and slow down, but most horse riders use the paths I mention. It's just these two women, with a very arrogant, superior attitude to anyone who speaks to them.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 19th May 17, 5:57 PM
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    AndyMc.....
    Living in rural Lincolnshire, there are rural activities. One of those is horse riding and a small minority are a complete PITA. I have no objection to horse riding per se: however, there are two women locally who insist upon riding out at atime when the many commuters in both directions, are going to and from work. They use the local A road and they ride two abreast. The effect upon people returning home after a long commute, is of course an increase in annoyance, followed in some cases by an exchange of heated words.

    The really exasperating factor, is that there are many bridle paths, public rights of way, footpaths and country lanes around the area, which would be ideal for these idiots to take their horses in safety. Most drivers in our area are used to horses and slow down, but most horse riders use the paths I mention. It's just these two women, with a very arrogant, superior attitude to anyone who speaks to them.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    I can't see a need to speak to them, they have as much right to use the road as you have. You wait for a safe opportunity to pass them and do it.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 19th May 17, 6:00 PM
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    Gloomendoom
    The really exasperating factor, is that there are many bridle paths, public rights of way, footpaths and country lanes around the area, which would be ideal for these idiots to take their horses in safety. Most drivers in our area are used to horses and slow down, but most horse riders use the paths I mention. It's just these two women, with a very arrogant, superior attitude to anyone who speaks to them.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    But they have to get to the bridleways (like cyclists, they can't ride on footpaths) in the first place and often the only way to get from one bridleway to another is to use a road, even if it is for a short distance.

    I suspect that they ride two abreast to discourage vehicles to try and squeeze past them.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 19th May 17, 7:53 PM
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    Mercdriver
    Drivers shouting at the riders is irresponsible. What if they scared the horses?
    • boliston
    • By boliston 19th May 17, 8:01 PM
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    boliston
    I always walk well out into the road if its narrow until I am aware of traffic slowing down to a safe passing speed - the last thing any pedestrian wants is a close pass at speed which hugging the verge would beg for. That room between the verge and yourself can literally save your life as if you move over too early then there is then nowhere left to go.
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 19th May 17, 8:15 PM
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    Doc N
    I always walk well out into the road if its narrow until I am aware of traffic slowing down to a safe passing speed - the last thing any pedestrian wants is a close pass at speed which hugging the verge would beg for. That room between the verge and yourself can literally save your life as if you move over too early then there is then nowhere left to go.
    Originally posted by boliston
    Goodness, that's a brave approach! I see your point entirely, but I hate to think what abuse that would engender among certain drivers in this rural area.

    My son cycles, and even he gets sworn at by drivers telling him he's in the way!
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 20th May 17, 5:01 PM
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    Robisere
    I can't see a need to speak to them, they have as much right to use the road as you have. You wait for a safe opportunity to pass them and do it.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    They should not ride two abreast on a road unsuitable for that, and they should use commonsense to not ride the highway at periods when people are going to and from work, when the roads are mega-busy! Did you miss that? You also missed the 'rural roads' part: these are narrow roads, with no passing places.

    As for "Shouting" at them, as another has said - where do I say that?

    People have spoken to them in my hearing, by asking them politely to ride in single file. The person asking received a torrent of abuse. Yes, they have the same rights as other road users, but these two women are alone in an area of many horse riders, in applying no commonsense to their activities. Read this:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-about-animals-47-to-58

    They don't obey these Rules:

    * keep a horse you are leading to your left
    * move in the direction of the traffic flow in a one-way street
    * never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.

    Those are just some of the ways that they flaunt the Highway Code.
    There are many bridle roads and paths branching off the highway, which they could ride in perfect safety, all the way to and from their stables. That is what most riders around here do.

    I am not attacking all riders here, I have several friends locally who ride and all of them dislike these two women, because they give all riders a bad name. To give some idea of the women: they have been warned about the condition of the stables and the animals, which have been examined by a vet in the past and declared to be in poor condition. TBH, I my concern is more for the horses than these women, who are liable to cause a situation someday to harm the horses.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

    • deaston
    • By deaston 20th May 17, 5:03 PM
    • 416 Posts
    • 217 Thanks
    deaston
    This 'Giving Way' question has made me wonder about another situation.

    Near me is a long bypass which, although only single-file, is actually a very wide road. There seems to be this odd local tradition that, when using the bypass, drivers drive as close to the verge as possible, creating a third "lane" down the middle of the road so people can whizz along at 70-80mph.

    Am I obliged to give way if a car is hurtling towards me? If I wasn't to get over and therefore cause a crash, would I be at fault because I could have created space for the oncoming car? Or would they be at fault for driving on the wrong side of the road?
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 20th May 17, 5:45 PM
    • 733 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    They should not ride two abreast on a road unsuitable for that, and they should use commonsense to not ride the highway at periods when people are going to and from work, when the roads are mega-busy! Did you miss that? You also missed the 'rural roads' part: these are narrow roads, with no passing places.

    As for "Shouting" at them, as another has said - where do I say that?

    People have spoken to them in my hearing, by asking them politely to ride in single file. The person asking received a torrent of abuse. Yes, they have the same rights as other road users, but these two women are alone in an area of many horse riders, in applying no commonsense to their activities. Read this:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-about-animals-47-to-58

    They don't obey these Rules:

    * keep a horse you are leading to your left
    * move in the direction of the traffic flow in a one-way street
    * never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.

    Those are just some of the ways that they flaunt the Highway Code.
    There are many bridle roads and paths branching off the highway, which they could ride in perfect safety, all the way to and from their stables. That is what most riders around here do.

    I am not attacking all riders here, I have several friends locally who ride and all of them dislike these two women, because they give all riders a bad name. To give some idea of the women: they have been warned about the condition of the stables and the animals, which have been examined by a vet in the past and declared to be in poor condition. TBH, I my concern is more for the horses than these women, who are liable to cause a situation someday to harm the horses.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    They still have a right to use the road and if you can't pass you wait. It really is that simple but I bet you've been a tw@t and said something to the riders. It's not your place to Police the roads.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 20th May 17, 5:53 PM
    • 14,710 Posts
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    AdrianC
    As for "Shouting" at them, as another has said - where do I say that?

    People have spoken to them in my hearing, by asking them politely to ride in single file.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    So... whilst passing these horse riders at a safe distance, these drivers have wound their passenger window down and spoken to the riders in a perfectly respectful tone...

    Of course they did. I'm sure they didn't bellow abuse themselves at all...

    Look, it's very simple - if the driver was planning on leaving sufficient space, it doesn't much matter whether the horses/cyclists/pedestrians (hey, novel idea - let's call them "other road users") are single file or not.

    It only becomes an issue if the driver is planning on squeezing past where there really isn't space, usually because of oncoming traffic.

    Highway Code, rules 163, 212 and 215.

    163 even comes with a pretty picture and a caption in the online version, to make it really obvious for the hard-of-thinking entitled.

    Yes, both 66 and 53 suggest cyclists and horse riders should ride no more than TWO ABREAST, single file on narrow/busy roads. If you're going to point to that, then can I point you to 147?
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 20th May 17, 6:03 PM
    • 10,344 Posts
    • 21,394 Thanks
    POPPYOSCAR
    "As the expensiveness of the car increased, the drivers' tendencies to break the law increased as well" (8m 08s into the video)



    Specifically, drivers in more expensive cars are not giving way to pedestrians when they are legally obliged to do so.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31761576
    Originally posted by jack_pott

    I recently had occasion to stay for a few days in a very affluent area with an abundance of expensive cars.

    Driving around I could not believe the driving. Almost without exception most were driving above the speed limit and were continually up my backside itching to get past.

    There were no speed cameras around and not once did I see a police car so they obviously know they can do it and get away with it.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 20th May 17, 6:12 PM
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    • 655 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    When I witness heated words, they are rarely if ever whispered or spoken at a reasonable volume. If people are using choice words, they are generally screamed or shouted, something you should never do in proximity to horses on a road even if you think the rider is being a tw@t
    • boliston
    • By boliston 20th May 17, 7:36 PM
    • 2,269 Posts
    • 1,818 Thanks
    boliston
    Walking facing traffic affords the ability to see traffic and be ready for it, especially in those situations where you might step around something or trip trying to, just as a bus comes barrelling past......
    Originally posted by Strider590
    On straight sections I would face traffic but there is no way I would walk facing traffic on the inside of a blind bend - I would move to outside on bends so I am visible to approaching traffic.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 20th May 17, 9:42 PM
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    • 5,981 Thanks
    bigadaj
    This 'Giving Way' question has made me wonder about another situation.

    Near me is a long bypass which, although only single-file, is actually a very wide road. There seems to be this odd local tradition that, when using the bypass, drivers drive as close to the verge as possible, creating a third "lane" down the middle of the road so people can whizz along at 70-80mph.

    Am I obliged to give way if a car is hurtling towards me? If I wasn't to get over and therefore cause a crash, would I be at fault because I could have created space for the oncoming car? Or would they be at fault for driving on the wrong side of the road?
    Originally posted by deaston
    They would be at fault because they are overtaking.

    However at an apparent closing speed of well over 100moh from waht you say then the question of blame would be academic for parties involved, you could argue it out upstairs or downstairs assuming you end up in the same place on the afterlife.
    • vikingaero
    • By vikingaero 21st May 17, 9:42 AM
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    vikingaero
    Without reading this thread in full - 1 and only 1.

    Pedestrians have ultimate priority here - morally and if not legally. They don't have to get on a verge or dive into a hedge because you are oncoming. Sure if they can then that helps everyone. Obstruction is on your side, following the Highway Code, so you defer to oncoming traffic. Simple. End of.
    The man without a signature.
    • ARandomMiser
    • By ARandomMiser 21st May 17, 10:08 AM
    • 1,680 Posts
    • 3,493 Thanks
    ARandomMiser
    What do you do?

    1 Stop before you reach the pedestrians to allow the other car to pass safely.

    2 Blast your horn at the pedestrians to get them to move out of the way.

    3 Carry on regardless and take a chance on brushing against the pedestrians?

    Real life situation - I see it every day. What's the correct answer? An increasing number of drivers seem not to know what it is.
    Originally posted by Doc N
    I am surprised that anyone needs to ask this question.
    Number 1 - like duh! you needed to ask
    Number 2 is an illegal use of the horn
    Number 3 you could try, but then the pointy end of my hiking stick might accidentally get dragged right up the side of the vehicle as I tried not to get hit.
    IITYYHTBMAD
    • Doc N
    • By Doc N 21st May 17, 10:22 AM
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    Doc N
    I am surprised that anyone needs to ask this question.
    Number 1 - like duh! you needed to ask
    Number 2 is an illegal use of the horn
    Number 3 you could try, but then the pointy end of my hiking stick might accidentally get dragged right up the side of the vehicle as I tried not to get hit.
    Originally posted by ARandomMiser
    Not so long ago I knew a man round here who used to carry a brick in a carrier bag, reserved for similar use!
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 21st May 17, 10:26 AM
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    bigadaj
    Not so long ago I knew a man round here who used to carry a brick in a carrier bag, reserved for similar use!
    Originally posted by Doc N
    That was just father jack taking his pet out for a walk.
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