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  • FIRST POST
    • Dazzanic
    • By Dazzanic 18th May 17, 5:11 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Dazzanic
    Abusive Boss
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 5:11 PM
    Abusive Boss 18th May 17 at 5:11 PM
    Hi, today I took in my resignation letter and spoke to my boss initially he was calm them started verbally abusing me telling me to **** off and that he would destroy me and the company I am going to work with resulting in him again telling me to get the **** out and take garden leave until they decided what to do with me
    Once I got home the MD phoned asking me to change his mind when I politely said no he then said I had copied files to a USB drive and he would speak to their solicitor, I told him I had copied files as I knew they would try to hold off paying me thousands in owed commissions
    I feel very down about being spoken too by my manager
Page 1
    • lewishardwick
    • By lewishardwick 18th May 17, 5:16 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 523 Thanks
    lewishardwick
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 5:16 PM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 5:16 PM
    Have you taken company data without permission? Best give it back...
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 18th May 17, 5:19 PM
    • 9,416 Posts
    • 7,385 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 5:19 PM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 5:19 PM
    What is your question?
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 18th May 17, 5:21 PM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,167 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 5:21 PM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 5:21 PM
    Hi, today I took in my resignation letter and spoke to my boss initially he was calm them started verbally abusing me telling me to **** off and that he would destroy me and the company I am going to work with resulting in him again telling me to get the **** out and take garden leave until they decided what to do with me
    Once I got home the MD phoned asking me to change his mind when I politely said no he then said I had copied files to a USB drive and he would speak to their solicitor, I told him I had copied files as I knew they would try to hold off paying me thousands in owed commissions
    I feel very down about being spoken too by my manager
    Originally posted by Dazzanic


    You stole company information - uhm that's a criminal matter, you could go to prison, it will certainly cost you your new jobs.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 18th May 17, 5:21 PM
    • 5,562 Posts
    • 6,362 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 5:21 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 5:21 PM
    Hi, today I took in my resignation letter and spoke to my boss initially he was calm them started verbally abusing me telling me to **** off and that he would destroy me and the company I am going to work with resulting in him again telling me to get the **** out and take garden leave until they decided what to do with me
    Once I got home the MD phoned asking me to change his mind when I politely said no he then said I had copied files to a USB drive and he would speak to their solicitor, I told him I had copied files as I knew they would try to hold off paying me thousands in owed commissions
    I feel very down about being spoken too by my manager
    Originally posted by Dazzanic
    Is the boss the same as the MD?

    Also, be very careful about blackmailing your MD....not a good start and the MD would be quite within their rights to tell your future employer.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • Muscle750
    • By Muscle750 18th May 17, 6:56 PM
    • 833 Posts
    • 253 Thanks
    Muscle750
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 6:56 PM
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 6:56 PM
    You are in breach of data protection and this is a criminal offence
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 18th May 17, 6:56 PM
    • 2,936 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 6:56 PM
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 6:56 PM
    Have you taken company data without permission? Best give it back...
    Originally posted by lewishardwick
    How exactly do you "give data back"?

    Obviously the OP could return the physical USB drive (if it was actually company property and not one of their own) but given that the data itself could be endlessly copied giving it back is meaningless.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 18th May 17, 6:58 PM
    • 2,936 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 6:58 PM
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 6:58 PM
    You are in breach of data protection and this is a criminal offence
    Originally posted by Muscle750

    Not necessarily. If the OP legitimately had access to that information as part of their work or if they need it in order to ensure they receive the correct amount of commission it would not be an offence. Taking the USB stick itself may be (assuming it was not their own) but only if there was an intent to permanently deprive.
    Last edited by Undervalued; 18-05-2017 at 7:17 PM.
    • prosaver
    • By prosaver 18th May 17, 7:02 PM
    • 6,457 Posts
    • 5,005 Thanks
    prosaver
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 7:02 PM
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 7:02 PM
    you could say i put the data on the stick but left the stick in the office and if he asks, where? say you hid it,,then go back to work and drop it on the floor when he not looking. cant realy do u for copying stuff on a stick and leaving it at the office,
    just say it was a backup file in case the computer went down.

    or you can say cant find it and keep the stick.
    Last edited by prosaver; 18-05-2017 at 7:04 PM.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 18th May 17, 7:02 PM
    • 5,562 Posts
    • 6,362 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    How exactly do you "give data back"?

    Obviously the OP could return the physical USB drive (if it was actually company property and not one of their own) but given that the data itself could be endlessly copied giving it back is meaningless.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    not if its the only copy of said Data left...
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 18th May 17, 7:06 PM
    • 2,936 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Undervalued
    not if its the only copy of said Data left...
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    The OP said....

    Once I got home the MD phoned asking me to change his mind when I politely said no he then said I had copied files to a USB drive and he would speak to their solicitor, I told him I had copied files as I knew they would try to hold off paying me thousands in owed commissions
    Which seems clear (to me) that they simply made a copy for themselves, not destroyed the original.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 18th May 17, 7:20 PM
    • 5,562 Posts
    • 6,362 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    The OP said....



    Which seems clear (to me) that they simply made a copy for themselves, not destroyed the original.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    Perhaps but considering he is effectively holding them as ransom my point is still valid.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 18th May 17, 10:10 PM
    • 2,936 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Perhaps but considering he is effectively holding them as ransom my point is still valid.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    Well maybe I'm missing something but how is he "holding them to ransom"?

    Surely, if he is owed this commission and the data confirms the details, then all he has done is obtained a copy of some evidence to back up his claim? At least that is how I read the OP.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 18th May 17, 10:22 PM
    • 1,703 Posts
    • 2,485 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Perhaps but considering he is effectively holding them as ransom my point is still valid.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    The point is that if he has copied and removed from the premises data he shouldn't have, then "giving it back" is going to be neither here nor there. The breach has occurred, and they are liable for the consequences. There's no way of knowing if he has made additional copies of it while he has it at home.
    • foolofbeans
    • By foolofbeans 18th May 17, 11:25 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 389 Thanks
    foolofbeans
    The point is that if he has copied and removed from the premises data he shouldn't have, then "giving it back" is going to be neither here nor there. The breach has occurred, and they are liable for the consequences. There's no way of knowing if he has made additional copies of it while he has it at home.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    A breach may have occurred but there is no quantifiable loss so there could not be any penalty to pay. If OP was selling the data I could understand the upset but to just obtain details of the pay they are owed is not a sin.
    • ERICS MUM
    • By ERICS MUM 19th May 17, 3:35 AM
    • 3,398 Posts
    • 6,327 Thanks
    ERICS MUM
    If the data contains details of commission due for various pieces of work, it might also contain details if the work - e.g. Price and client. This could be used by OP in his next job, maybe to 'lure' clients from the old company.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 19th May 17, 10:01 AM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,167 Thanks
    Guest101
    A breach may have occurred but there is no quantifiable loss so there could not be any penalty to pay. If OP was selling the data I could understand the upset but to just obtain details of the pay they are owed is not a sin.
    Originally posted by foolofbeans


    It's theft. It really is as simple as that.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 19th May 17, 10:13 AM
    • 18,594 Posts
    • 18,849 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    It's theft. It really is as simple as that.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    With respect, this is total rubbish. You don't know what the OP has taken. If s/he had copied down sales made, and commission due, on a piece of paper to ensure that they can check that the commission that they are paid is correct, would you consider this theft? Would your answer differ if they had made contemporaneous records in a notebook when they were making the sales, and if so, why?

    And if your answer to first question above is 'yes', how else would you suggest that they check their commission?

    If your answer is 'no', how does saving this data electronically differ from writing it down on a piece of paper?

    I am willing to change my view, potentially, if you can come up with a way that the OP can check their commission payments......
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    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 19th May 17, 10:26 AM
    • 14,477 Posts
    • 14,167 Thanks
    Guest101
    With respect, this is total rubbish. - With respect, no it's not. You don't know what the OP has taken. - Clearly he/she has taken computer data from work. If s/he had copied down sales made, and commission due, on a piece of paper to ensure that they can check that the commission that they are paid is correct, would you consider this theft? - The data on the IT system remains the property, always, of the employer. If the OP had noted down figures and names on their own phone or notepad, then no that would not be theft. Would your answer differ if they had made contemporaneous records in a notebook when they were making the sales, and if so, why? - Because the data held on IT systems belongs to the employer.

    And if your answer to first question above is 'yes', how else would you suggest that they check their commission? - Given I've worked in a commission payment role, I would suggest they phone the 'me' of their company and ask. Or take notes on the own system.

    If your answer is 'no', how does saving this data electronically differ from writing it down on a piece of paper? - Because the data on the IT system belongs to the employer.

    I am willing to change my view, potentially, if you can come up with a way that the OP can check their commission payments......
    Originally posted by jobbingmusician


    Sure there's the way I described above.


    There's taking notes on your own system / property.


    There's a thing called memory. Where you remember what you've done.


    I can tell you that having worked in a role paying commission to sales people, only a handful of people have access to that - and this was a international operation - I paid 20+ teams across Europe.
    The OP would need to take in essence the sales contracts, which would include personal client data. If they simply wanted their commission why wouldn't they look up their sales on the system and note down: contract number, amount and deductibles? - that is literally all they would need
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 19th May 17, 10:29 AM
    • 3,352 Posts
    • 5,571 Thanks
    sangie595
    The argument here is all moot. Nobody knows what files were taken or why they were taken, so what the OP did is unknown. All we know is that the company knew what they did and have referred the matter to their solicitors - which is unsurprising.

    I suspect that there is a great deal more to this story than had been said, so deciding whether the OP was in the right, or the employer was, or they are as bad as each other, is a pointless exercise. If the OP was so concerned about all this, you'd think they'd have been back on the thread by now to explain.
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