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    • Eastender
    • By Eastender 18th May 17, 4:49 PM
    • 102Posts
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    Eastender
    Buying Father-in-law's flat under right to buy
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 4:49 PM
    Buying Father-in-law's flat under right to buy 18th May 17 at 4:49 PM
    Hi Folks,

    He lives alone and quite elderly, he is keen for his daughter, my wife, to have the Council property, after he passes away or goes to sheltered housing. None of us live in his flat. My question is as follows.

    1. Can we buy it for him, can we show our name on the Title deeds or does it have to be a will?

    2. We would have to remortgage our house, as he won't get a mortgage and buy it on his behalf. We don't have a mortgage anymore on our house. When we do get a mortgage, would that be 'buy to let' type, but we won't be renting it straight away, as he would be living there. We're unable to get another mortgage based on income as we don't earn high salary to get the mortgage.
Page 1
    • Money maker
    • By Money maker 18th May 17, 4:58 PM
    • 4,765 Posts
    • 10,855 Thanks
    Money maker
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 4:58 PM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 4:58 PM
    This has been covered numerous times in the past. You cannot buy the house, only he can. You cannot have a mortgage on his house. This seems to be all about how you can get your hands on his property rather than if he wants the hassle of trying to fund a property which may need to be sold if he needs care when he is already looked after by the council with a fully maintained home in exchange for a low rent.
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    • Torry Quine
    • By Torry Quine 18th May 17, 4:59 PM
    • 16,795 Posts
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    Torry Quine
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 4:59 PM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 4:59 PM
    No you can't buy it for him. The only person with the right to buy is him.
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    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 18th May 17, 5:08 PM
    • 839 Posts
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    IAmWales
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 5:08 PM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 5:08 PM
    Hi Folks,

    He lives alone and quite elderly, he is keen for his daughter, my wife, to have the Council property, after he passes away or goes to sheltered housing. None of us live in his flat. My question is as follows.

    1. Can we buy it for him, can we show our name on the Title deeds or does it have to be a will?

    2. We would have to remortgage our house, as he won't get a mortgage and buy it on his behalf. We don't have a mortgage anymore on our house. When we do get a mortgage, would that be 'buy to let' type, but we won't be renting it straight away, as he would be living there. We're unable to get another mortgage based on income as we don't earn high salary to get the mortgage.
    Originally posted by Eastender
    Why is he keen for his daughter to have his council flat, does she not have anywhere else to live?

    Or are you just trying to make a quick buck under the RTB scheme for a property that you've never even lived in?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 18th May 17, 5:08 PM
    • 10,422 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 5:08 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 5:08 PM
    Is the search facility broken on the forum?

    You could potentially remortgage your home and then either gift or loan him the money to exercise his right to buy. However, should he require care in the future the council can use the equity in his home to pay for it leaving you with a mortgage and SFA to show for it.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 18th May 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1,109 Posts
    • 3,017 Thanks
    Penitent
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 5:11 PM
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 5:11 PM
    Hi Folks,

    He lives alone and quite elderly, he is keen for his daughter, my wife, to have the Council property, after he passes away or goes to sheltered housing. None of us live in his flat. My question is as follows.

    1. Can we buy it for him, can we show our name on the Title deeds or does it have to be a will?

    2. We would have to remortgage our house, as he won't get a mortgage and buy it on his behalf. We don't have a mortgage anymore on our house. When we do get a mortgage, would that be 'buy to let' type, but we won't be renting it straight away, as he would be living there. We're unable to get another mortgage based on income as we don't earn high salary to get the mortgage.
    Originally posted by Eastender
    Putting aside the question of whether you can do this, I think you should ask yourself whether you should. You want to take a Council property out of circulation, not so you can live in it, but so you can have a buy to let. Wouldn't it be better to let some other poor soul have the same opportunity for affordable rent and a secure tenancy as your FIL has had, rather than adding another less secure and affordable property to the market?
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 18th May 17, 5:24 PM
    • 7,689 Posts
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    fairy lights
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 5:24 PM
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 5:24 PM
    Oh dear. You don't come in this part of the forum often, do you OP?
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th May 17, 7:06 PM
    • 2,522 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 7:06 PM
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 7:06 PM
    The only person who as the right to buy is the tenant. No one else. The only way that he could buy this house is if your wife remortgages your house to get the money to give to him to buy his house and it has to be in his name.

    If he owns it and has to go into sheltered housing he will have to buy the sheltered housing. A council will not give free sheltered housing to someone who owns their house. If he owns it and needs residential care he will have to sell it to provide for his care.

    Even if there was a way for him to buy this property it would be an extremely bad idea for him. At the moment he has a home for life and repairs done by the council.
    • Amara
    • By Amara 18th May 17, 7:19 PM
    • 1,885 Posts
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    Amara
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 7:19 PM
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 7:19 PM
    Why so often people say: "If you buy council house, you'll reduce council accommodation stock". As long as council house has a tenant, it's out of stock anyway and because council tenancy is for life, it may be a very long time.
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    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th May 17, 7:40 PM
    • 2,522 Posts
    • 3,373 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Why so often people say: "If you buy council house, you'll reduce council accommodation stock". As long as council house has a tenant, it's out of stock anyway and because council tenancy is for life, it may be a very long time.
    Originally posted by Amara
    You have to think of this like stock in a shop. If you sell some of it then it is gone for ever. However if you hire something to someone you will get it back eventually. It won't be gone forever.
    • Gigervamp
    • By Gigervamp 18th May 17, 8:06 PM
    • 6,192 Posts
    • 19,685 Thanks
    Gigervamp
    Why so often people say: "If you buy council house, you'll reduce council accommodation stock". As long as council house has a tenant, it's out of stock anyway and because council tenancy is for life, it may be a very long time.
    Originally posted by Amara
    Well, in this case, as the tenant is elderly, it may not be long before it becomes vacant again, either due to the man dying, or going into a care home or sheltered housing.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 18th May 17, 10:04 PM
    • 1,533 Posts
    • 2,100 Thanks
    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Why so often people say: "If you buy council house, you'll reduce council accommodation stock". As long as council house has a tenant, it's out of stock anyway and because council tenancy is for life, it may be a very long time.
    Originally posted by Amara
    Because there's a difference between "some time" and "forever".

    If you still have problems with this concept, which I realise is very complicated, just wait 30 years. Then after that, wait forever. You'll see the difference.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 18th May 17, 10:32 PM
    • 35,306 Posts
    • 149,030 Thanks
    silvercar
    He can buy it using money you give or loan him.

    The danger is that it may need to be sold to pay for his care, if he requires residential care. He could also mortgage it in the future eg equity release to improve his own standard of living.

    The only mortgage you can get on the home you live in is a residential mortgage, that would be based on your income. If that isn't enough to raise the mortgage you have a problem. If the value is really low then a secured loan is a possibility, but the rates and repayments are higher.
    • karcher
    • By karcher 18th May 17, 10:41 PM
    • 1,026 Posts
    • 8,198 Thanks
    karcher
    Hi Folks,

    He lives alone and quite elderly, he is keen for his daughter, my wife, to have the Council property, after he passes away or goes to sheltered housing. None of us live in his flat. My question is as follows.

    1. Can we buy it for him, can we show our name on the Title deeds or does it have to be a will?

    2. We would have to remortgage our house, as he won't get a mortgage and buy it on his behalf. We don't have a mortgage anymore on our house. When we do get a mortgage, would that be 'buy to let' type, but we won't be renting it straight away, as he would be living there. We're unable to get another mortgage based on income as we don't earn high salary to get the mortgage.
    Originally posted by Eastender
    And therein lies the atrocity that was/is Right to Buy.

    • tealady
    • By tealady 19th May 17, 5:55 AM
    • 2,673 Posts
    • 3,150 Thanks
    tealady
    OP there are several problems I can think of.
    1) What are the Council rules regarding Right To Buty. Does the tenant have to prove they have the funds eg mortgage. If the money will be from you will that be acceptable to them
    2) Will your lender advance you the money and at what rate?
    3) If you can borrow the money can you put you name on the deeds. Will you be a tenant in common.
    4) If your or your wifes name go on the deeds will that be classed as a "sale" to another person, Councils rules may not allow this to happen for a fixed time.
    5) If you lend your FIL the money to buy the flat what happens if you need it back and he can't pay you?
    6) What would happen if your FIL died shortly after purchase. Do the Council have 1st refusal to buy the flat back?
    7) Do you know if the block has any building works programmed. As an owner you will have to pay a share of these.

    Buying a property for someone else can be complicated. I am sure others will know far more about this topic than me so I would suggest you have a good read of other threads on this topic.
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    • charlieismydarling
    • By charlieismydarling 19th May 17, 6:54 PM
    • 206 Posts
    • 691 Thanks
    charlieismydarling
    Does your father in law not know that the flat is not actually his to pass to his daughter. If he buys it with your money he won't get sheltered housing if he needs it.

    Or does he want his cake and eat it?
    • Amara
    • By Amara 20th May 17, 2:20 PM
    • 1,885 Posts
    • 7,142 Thanks
    Amara
    Because there's a difference between "some time" and "forever".

    If you still have problems with this concept, which I realise is very complicated, just wait 30 years. Then after that, wait forever. You'll see the difference.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    If council house is bought, council can use money from sale to build new one. Within 30 or whatever years house's condition undoubtedly will deteriorate, cost of repairs increase. Is it really better option to wait 30 years, until tenant dies and council house will come to stock, rather then sell it and build a new one?
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    • katebl
    • By katebl 20th May 17, 2:27 PM
    • 571 Posts
    • 265 Thanks
    katebl
    If council house is bought, council can use money from sale to build new one. Within 30 or whatever years house's condition undoubtedly will deteriorate, cost of repairs increase. Is it really better option to wait 30 years, until tenant dies and council house will come to stock, rather then sell it and build a new one?
    Originally posted by Amara
    I'm quite sure the money goes to central government rather than back to the individual council unfortunately so the whole "replacing sold stock" is a bit more difficult than it seems
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 20th May 17, 2:59 PM
    • 9,318 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    The money obtained from the sale of a council property would not be enough to build a new one. A council would have to sell off a lot of property to fund building new stock.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 20th May 17, 3:04 PM
    • 2,522 Posts
    • 3,373 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    If council house is bought, council can use money from sale to build new one. Within 30 or whatever years house's condition undoubtedly will deteriorate, cost of repairs increase. Is it really better option to wait 30 years, until tenant dies and council house will come to stock, rather then sell it and build a new one?
    Originally posted by Amara
    It can if the land can be found to build it on. Sometimes it is better to replace the old stock with new so that requires demolishing it and rebuilding in the same place.
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