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  • FIRST POST
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 2:51 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Plant1980
    Tricked into Photocopier contract spiral :(
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 2:51 PM
    Tricked into Photocopier contract spiral :( 18th May 17 at 2:51 PM
    Ill try to make this short,
    Our photocopier company came in to review and offer us a better deal, they did and we signed the deal as it suited us.
    A few weeks later the sales rep said we were on target to go over our print allocation so he needed to adjust the numbers, he did and we resigned (at this point i did not see any cost changes).
    A few more weeks and he called in again with the same proposal to adjust the numbers, we did, and resigned.
    Then a bill came through for 3x what we initially signed up for, i took a look at the contracts and each time he had increased the cost per copy to double the amount.
    We opened a complaint as i think he purposely didnt fill in the new cost until we had signed.

    He phoned and said we could scale the print amounts back down no problem, several weeks go by of trying to get them in to scale down, and finally they say we cant, we have to pay the same amount and they will rebate us a little if we print less, if we want it on a contract they will triple the cost of our prints.
    I know its a long shot but do yo think misrepresentation is an option here?

    Thanks
Page 1
    • bengalknights
    • By bengalknights 18th May 17, 2:54 PM
    • 4,074 Posts
    • 1,488 Thanks
    bengalknights
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 2:54 PM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 2:54 PM
    Did you not take a copy at time of signing?
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 2:59 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 2:59 PM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 2:59 PM
    No, as personally i just thought it was an adjustment in terms of say 40k mono and 10k colour to 30k mono and 15k colour ect, stupid i know.
    He came in asked us to sign the adjusted volumes and went, then when we checked the copies they sent all the details were there.
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 18th May 17, 3:19 PM
    • 881 Posts
    • 638 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 3:19 PM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 3:19 PM
    If they can show you a contract with your signature on, you're probably stuffed. They only comeback you have is if they did not leave you a duplicate copy, or you have your own copy which is different, therefore opening the possibility that the rep could have altered it afterwards.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 3:35 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 3:35 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 3:35 PM
    No they did not leave me a copy, they got the signature, left and then posted a photocopy through after the first invoice came through weeks later.
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 18th May 17, 3:51 PM
    • 881 Posts
    • 638 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 3:51 PM
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 3:51 PM
    That's very bad practice, I wonder if it's company policy or if the rep was looking for a bit of commission? I would ring their head office and ask if you should have been left a copy. If not, I would dispute the contract and tell them that you're willing to take it further if necessary. What's to stop any rep altering a contract after they leave?
    Please be sure you are certain on the facts first, though.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 4:05 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 4:05 PM
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 4:05 PM
    Yeah thats exactly what i think, he is on commission and whipped in and out with the documents and added the new pricing sat in his car, i went ape when the first bill came though and he knew it was coming.
    We complained to his boss but he called up and said we could drop the amount of copies down, so we left it a bit, but now they have said we cant, we have to sign a new contract for the lower amount of copies at the SAME elevated cost and rely on them rebating us every quarter....its a scam
    • 27cool
    • By 27cool 18th May 17, 4:06 PM
    • 250 Posts
    • 190 Thanks
    27cool
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 4:06 PM
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 4:06 PM
    That's very bad practice, I wonder if it's company policy or if the rep was looking for a bit of commission? I would ring their head office and ask if you should have been left a copy. If not, I would dispute the contract and tell them that you're willing to take it further if necessary. What's to stop any rep altering a contract after they leave?
    Please be sure you are certain on the facts first, though.
    Originally posted by Shakin Steve
    Surely you can't suspect a rep of trying to get more commission.
    Perish the thought.
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 4:08 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 4:08 PM
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 4:08 PM
    When we signed the first document cost per copy was 4p mono and 7p colour but the asset was free so no rental, then a few weeks later he adjusted the volumes a little and when we got the documents in the post i saw 8.08p mono and 12p colour, there is no way i would have signed that if those numbers had been on that sheet
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 18th May 17, 4:41 PM
    • 881 Posts
    • 638 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    Right...well, dig your heels in, refuse to pay and accuse them of fraud. That should get their attention.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • freeisgood
    • By freeisgood 18th May 17, 4:45 PM
    • 474 Posts
    • 728 Thanks
    freeisgood
    Any witnesses in your office confirming those figures were not on the form?

    I would also make a lot of fuss on their facebook page too.
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 4:48 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    Any witnesses in your office confirming those figures were not on the form?

    I would also make a lot of fuss on their facebook page too.
    Originally posted by freeisgood
    Yes me and the director (who signed the documents) have no recollection of those numbers being written down, although i was daft enough to take them for signing i would never have tripled my bill if those figures had been on there.
    • rtho782
    • By rtho782 18th May 17, 5:00 PM
    • 969 Posts
    • 665 Thanks
    rtho782
    Did you not take a copy at time of signing?
    Originally posted by bengalknights
    Perhaps he didn't have a photocopier!

    Wait....
    Deposit Saved since 01/12/15: £13,000 / £15,000 House Bought!

    Debt Cleared since 01/12/15: £6,000 / £7,500
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 18th May 17, 5:01 PM
    • 7,373 Posts
    • 7,399 Thanks
    pogofish
    More to the point, are we being tricked into giving a company free advice against clearly agreed board policy?
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 18th May 17, 5:04 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    Tricked? simply asking how likely we are to be successful if we do dig in, its not what we need right now to be chased up for money, i suppose a solicitor might be best option? thanks for the input though, it does seem to swing towards us having a chance.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 18th May 17, 5:44 PM
    • 991 Posts
    • 2,156 Thanks
    IAmWales
    Yes me and the director (who signed the documents) have no recollection of those numbers being written down, although i was daft enough to take them for signing i would never have tripled my bill if those figures had been on there.
    Originally posted by Plant1980
    What numbers do you recollect being written down, are you saying that you signed a blank form?
    • Chris bay
    • By Chris bay 18th May 17, 6:55 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Chris bay
    Contracts - Rule of thumb.
    Never ever sign there and then, especially with the salesman waiting for it.
    Always sit on the deal for a couple of days to enable review.
    Also always ask someone else unconnected to the proposal to review the contract before signature.

    Options
    Photo copying companies are notorious for their dodgy deals. Trading Standards might be an option.

    A company called Fair Contract Associates has been recently referenced a couple of times as helping with these situations (I have no connection with them)

    Threaten Promise lots of bad publicity, Rotary, Chamber of Commerce etc etc

    Future
    Buy a second hand machine that is less than a year old. Often these go for 20 to 30% of the list price.

    Never lease for more than 36 months. Photocopiers don't last much longer than that without needing significant maintenance and the parts are no longer available.

    Also you could buy the Photocopier new and agree a maintenance contract with a local engineer, much much cheaper.

    Always put up the renewal to open tender (or if small value at least three quotes)

    Good luck
    • marty2be2000
    • By marty2be2000 19th May 17, 7:20 AM
    • 185 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    marty2be2000
    When we signed the first document cost per copy was 4p mono and 7p colour but the asset was free so no rental, then a few weeks later he adjusted the volumes a little and when we got the documents in the post i saw 8.08p mono and 12p colour, there is no way i would have signed that if those numbers had been on that sheet
    Originally posted by Plant1980
    Are you only paying the pence per copy / scan etc. on the contract and nothing else at all.

    If you are paying per copy only then just stop using the machine so the company will get nothing from you.

    Then go elsewhere and do as others have said, source another machine from elsewhere and double check the print volumes are realistic before signing anything.
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 19th May 17, 7:35 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    What numbers do you recollect being written down, are you saying that you signed a blank form?
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    When he came in, he said they monitor our volumes remotely and he needed to adjust them as we were going to go over, so he put new volumes down and we signed based on those volumes, i NEVER saw any new pricing as i would never have signed a new contract at double the cost per copy
    • Plant1980
    • By Plant1980 19th May 17, 7:40 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Plant1980
    Are you only paying the pence per copy / scan etc. on the contract and nothing else at all.

    If you are paying per copy only then just stop using the machine so the company will get nothing from you.

    Then go elsewhere and do as others have said, source another machine from elsewhere and double check the print volumes are realistic before signing anything.
    Originally posted by marty2be2000
    No its a volume contract which suited us better as one month we can use the copier a few hundred times, then next month we could print 5,000. we were told we could adjust the contracted volume every quarter, but that was false, they altered the volumes but doubled the cost per copy but i never saw that information.
    We were also told we could move the volumes down per quarter but now they are saying no we cant, we have to keep paying and they will just rebate us a bit. total scam.
    Essentially we signed up for a 2 copiers @£1600 per quarter when the volume was adjusted up a little they doubled the cost per copy (but i say he added that after) so the bill is now £4300 per quarter.
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