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  • FIRST POST
    • missfunkymonkey
    • By missfunkymonkey 18th May 17, 1:26 PM
    • 26Posts
    • 10Thanks
    missfunkymonkey
    Phone call from UK CPM re a PCN!
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 1:26 PM
    Phone call from UK CPM re a PCN! 18th May 17 at 1:26 PM
    Hi Guys,

    Firstly my apologies if the following reads like War and Peace but I'm new to this.

    So I received a PCN through the post from UK CPM last week with a photo of my car (obviously by some jobsworth, not an ANPR) parked on a small side road opposite an entrance to a BT Building staff car park. My car wasn't blocking the entrance nor causing an obstruction.

    The road I was parked on is small and leads to a Royal Mail Sorting Office (where their vans come and go all the time) and also another privately operated car park so it is in regular use daily not just by BT staff.


    The PCN states 'The terms and conditions of parking on this private land are clearly set out on the signage installed within this car park. By parking within this car park you are bound to these terms and conditions and liable to pay a charge if you breach these terms and conditions.'

    I've since been back to the road and there are some signs but in my opinion they are not clear as they are on a wall of the BT building and inside the car park rather than on the road.

    I complained to a Facilities Manager at BT that my car was not in the car park as stated on the PCN but outside on the road to which he informed me the road is private land owned by BT and there are signs up. He went on to say they were in the process of cancelling some PCNs of other vehicles that had parked on the same part of the road as me so it looked quite promising. WRONG!

    I didn't hear anything for a few days so I chased BT Manager again and he told me it was with their legal team and I would hear back that day from someone. A few minutes later I then get a call on my mobile from a number I didn't recognise so I answered it thinking it would be someone from BT but it was someone from UK CPM!!

    Obviously BT had asked him to call me to discuss my complaint but this caught me a bit offguard as I was not expecting to actually speak to these shysters! He even said himself at the outset that they wouldn't normally make contact by telephone but they would make an exception as I had complained to BT. In hindsight I probably should have said I'm not discussing it with him but I thought what the hell I'll argue the toss to try get it cancelled. So I went over the same things with him as I did with BT and he said it didn't matter as I was still on private land and the photo of my car on the PCN shows the signage is there in the background. I told him the signage was not visible and is inadequate and but he wasn't having any of it. Anyway although he was not rude, he was having any of it and said I would have to appeal and if rejected take it to the IAS.

    The 14 days since issue are up tomorrow and I don't see why I should pay. I can send them the helpful template letter on the newbie thread but obviously as UK CPM have telephoned me they are now aware that I was the driver which riles me further.

    Are they entitled to telephone me without any prior permission as as this could be seen as a somewhat intimidating tactic?

    Should I make a formal complaint to BT and UKCPM as I did not give my authorisation for my number to be passed on?

    Any advice on what to do from here would be appreciated.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 18th May 17, 1:46 PM
    • 5,955 Posts
    • 7,670 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 1:46 PM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 1:46 PM
    Hi Guys,

    Firstly my apologies if the following reads like War and Peace but I'm new to this.

    So I received a PCN through the post from UK CPM last week with a photo of my car (obviously by some jobsworth, not an ANPR) parked on a small side road opposite an entrance to a BT Building staff car park. My car wasn't blocking the entrance nor causing an obstruction.

    The road I was parked on is small and leads to a Royal Mail Sorting Office (where their vans come and go all the time) and also another privately operated car park so it is in regular use daily not just by BT staff.


    The PCN states 'The terms and conditions of parking on this private land are clearly set out on the signage installed within this car park. By parking within this car park you are bound to these terms and conditions and liable to pay a charge if you breach these terms and conditions.'

    I've since been back to the road and there are some signs but in my opinion they are not clear as they are on a wall of the BT building and inside the car park rather than on the road.

    I complained to a Facilities Manager at BT that my car was not in the car park as stated on the PCN but outside on the road to which he informed me the road is private land owned by BT and there are signs up. He went on to say they were in the process of cancelling some PCNs of other vehicles that had parked on the same part of the road as me so it looked quite promising. WRONG!

    I didn't hear anything for a few days so I chased BT Manager again and he told me it was with their legal team and I would hear back that day from someone. A few minutes later I then get a call on my mobile from a number I didn't recognise so I answered it thinking it would be someone from BT but it was someone from UK CPM!!

    Obviously BT had asked him to call me to discuss my complaint but this caught me a bit offguard as I was not expecting to actually speak to these shysters! He even said himself at the outset that they wouldn't normally make contact by telephone but they would make an exception as I had complained to BT. In hindsight I probably should have said I'm not discussing it with him but I thought what the hell I'll argue the toss to try get it cancelled. So I went over the same things with him as I did with BT and he said it didn't matter as I was still on private land and the photo of my car on the PCN shows the signage is there in the background. I told him the signage was not visible and is inadequate and but he wasn't having any of it. Anyway although he was not rude, he was having any of it and said I would have to appeal and if rejected take it to the IAS.

    The 14 days since issue are up tomorrow and I don't see why I should pay. I can send them the helpful template letter on the newbie thread but obviously as UK CPM have telephoned me they are now aware that I was the driver which riles me further.

    Are they entitled to telephone me without any prior permission as as this could be seen as a somewhat intimidating tactic?

    Should I make a formal complaint to BT and UKCPM as I did not give my authorisation for my number to be passed on?

    Any advice on what to do from here would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by missfunkymonkey
    BT of all people should know about data protection ??

    BT have now subjected you to the harassment that UKCPM will conduct and even worse, the debt collectors that will follow.

    Suggest you explain to BT that by giving out your data, they have compromised you without you giving your permission

    Explain this is clearly a serious data breach and you expect BT to cancel the ticket with instruction to UKCPM to delete your private data
    You will expect BT to confirm this in writing
    Subject to you receiving the confirmation, you will consider the matter closed.

    God, if BT can openly do this we have no hope
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th May 17, 2:06 PM
    • 40,304 Posts
    • 80,504 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 2:06 PM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 2:06 PM
    Do as suggested above, and in addition send the IPC template from the NEWBIES thread adding that by using the data supplied by BT they are also in breach of the DPA.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 18th May 17, 3:32 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 862 Thanks
    safarmuk
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 3:32 PM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 3:32 PM
    I didn't hear anything for a few days so I chased BT Manager again and he told me it was with their legal team and I would hear back that day from someone. A few minutes later I then get a call on my mobile from a number I didn't recognise so I answered it thinking it would be someone from BT but it was someone from UK CPM!!
    If you have evidence of this, phone logs etc. or confirmation from BT that they gave your number to UK CPM without your approval then you can log a complaint with the ICO (Information Commissioners Office) which if upheld would support any DPA claim.

    Out of interest who from UK CPM called you - did you get a name? Just curious if it was one of their "Sales Executives" a friend of mine has had interaction with.

    Also follow beamerguy's advice with regard to contacting BT about this ... but do it in writing/email (no verbal conversations) as you need to build up a paper trail.

    On getting the PCN cancelled you should as Fruitcake said send the IPC appeals template off to UK CPM but they won't cancel it and the IAS won't either.

    The best chance of a cancellation is via BT and ultimately this depends on your relationship with them - were you working for them or just parked on that land without realising it was BTs land. The leverage of the fact they gave your details away to UK CPM without your permission might help if you play it well.

    Failing a cancellation from BT I am afraid you are likely in a 6 year waiting pattern to see if UK CPM take this to the Small Claims Court (they are not prolific but have been increasing SCC activity this year - although the %age of SCC to tickets is very small).
    • missfunkymonkey
    • By missfunkymonkey 18th May 17, 6:50 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    missfunkymonkey
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 6:50 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 6:50 PM
    Thanks so much for all the advice given so far. I will definitely make a written complaint to BT and again request they cancel the PCN unless they want me to report them for breach of DPA. Yes I have a log of the of calls and my emails to them. It was definitely BT who gave them my phone number as UK CPM called me only 5 minutes after I was speaking to BT telling them I wanted it cancelled.

    Thanks beamer guy & Fruitcake, I shall follow your advice and let you know how I get on.
    • missfunkymonkey
    • By missfunkymonkey 26th May 17, 2:54 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    missfunkymonkey
    • #6
    • 26th May 17, 2:54 PM
    • #6
    • 26th May 17, 2:54 PM
    So I complained to BT about the breach of DPA and being contacted by CPM. No apology from them but they agreed to cancel the PCN. I've told them I require it in writing as I don't trust UK CPM and they have said they will do. I just checked paymyticket.co.uk and it confirms it has been cancelled so all seems good.

    A big thanks to all of you for your help and advice. I really appreciate it.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 26th May 17, 8:57 PM
    • 5,955 Posts
    • 7,670 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #7
    • 26th May 17, 8:57 PM
    • #7
    • 26th May 17, 8:57 PM
    So I complained to BT about the breach of DPA and being contacted by CPM. No apology from them but they agreed to cancel the PCN. I've told them I require it in writing as I don't trust UK CPM and they have said they will do. I just checked paymyticket.co.uk and it confirms it has been cancelled so all seems good.

    A big thanks to all of you for your help and advice. I really appreciate it.
    Originally posted by missfunkymonkey
    Well done, a result, bet BT did not like having their knuckles wrapped by you
    and cancellation was the only way out for them.

    Tell all your friends about this forum ...... as you can see, it works
    Last edited by beamerguy; 26-05-2017 at 9:00 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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