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  • FIRST POST
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:09 AM
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    DD1A
    POPLA Stage and need advise please
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 12:09 AM
    POPLA Stage and need advise please 18th May 17 at 12:09 AM
    Hello a bit of a run down of whats been going on

    7/4/2017 Friday evening have to say it was a first day with a lot of sun so the car park was rammed and spaces were clearly limited. Poor visibility of the bay due to big truck in the way unclear markings and no disabled signage, behind was car after car also impatiently looking to park so the next available space was taken unknowing it was a disabled bay. Are these legitimate bays, there was no visible blue signs on posts stating they were disabled, lines around bays are marked incorrectly
    Last edited by DD1A; 30-05-2017 at 11:30 PM.
Page 3
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 5:03 PM
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    DD1A
    Hello all I have had a reply which looks to me that PTL have given in their evidence the email I received was,

    Your parking charge appeal against Parking Ticketing.

    Parking Ticketing has now uploaded its evidence via our portal. This is now available for you to view by clicking here.

    You have seven days from the date of this correspondence to provide comments on the evidence uploaded by Parking Ticketing.

    Please note that these comments must relate to the grounds of appeal you submitted when first lodging your appeal with POPLA, we do not accept new grounds of appeal at this stage.

    Any comments received after the period of seven days has ended will not be considered and we will progress your appeal for assessment.

    If you have any issues with the evidence uploaded by Parking Ticketing such as being unable to view it online, please contact POPLA immediately so that we can look to rectify this as soon as possible.

    Yours Sincerely,

    POPLA Team

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 5:50 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Not sure we can see all those documents - I could only see the PCN, the NTK, the case summary and some photos.

    Have they not included anything to prove landowner authority?

    The photo of the disabled bay by the kids playhouses, with a white sign above a blue sign and a bay that is marked, is not where the car is shown parked, is it? Is that your car outside Pizza Hut, with no disabled bay markings at all shown? They appear to have included misleading photos and you need to point that out.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 6:24 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes I know, but I am asking you if there is landowner authority included there. And I pointed out what I could see from the misleading photos of a disabled bay with a completely different set of markings and signs with a different background that may not even be in the same car park - you MUST point this out to POPLA.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 6:27 PM
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    DD1A
    Apologies for the double post when I get home I will download all attached documents and re post the car is the red one C-M
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 6:36 PM
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    DD1A
    I just look d back at the POPLA appeal and I didn't attach a picture of the car in the bay the picture of the sign was to prove the lack of un clear signage in the parking lot. You can just see the car here

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 6:40 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Hang on, so what was in THEIR evidence pics, the red car?

    You can see that's not the same sign, bay or background as the white notice above blue one with the disabled markings. You cannot see any evidence at all (can you, in their evidence pack?) that the red car was in a disabled bay.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 6:42 PM
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    DD1A
    I'm arriving home in ten mins I'm going to download the attachments, is it ok to post them what shouldn't I post?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 6:44 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Show everything except cover your VRN and home address/name.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    DD1A
    Ok will do thank you C-M
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 10:00 PM
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    DD1A
    i have just done a massive mess up, i thought i was writing on here and accidentally submitted it to the claims form !!!!!!!!!!!!

    i basicly wrote,
    "i have looked through the evidence and have noticed that the signage photos are like 4 years old, the examples of others parking in the disabled spots are taken so close together (honeypot ticketing) and they never mentioned anything about the incorrect letter or errors they have done.
    I am going to upload the docs now"
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th Jun 17, 10:40 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    DD1A



















    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 20th Jun 17, 7:57 AM
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    DD1A
    Could I explain to POPLA and ask them to reset the form??
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Jun 17, 8:47 AM
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    Umkomaas
    Could I explain to POPLA and ask them to reset the form??
    Originally posted by DD1A
    Call them and ask. If they fob you off, put it in writing to the Lead Adjudicator, John Gallagher.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 20th Jun 17, 9:32 AM
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    DD1A
    I have called they advised that I get it to them today via email and they have left a note on the system to say I accidentally submitted the online form incorrectly and it'll be coming in via email.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 20th Jun 17, 9:34 AM
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    DD1A
    The photos of the parking area are 4 years old and the road markings are visible now they are barely visible, dirty and dull
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 20th Jun 17, 10:51 AM
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    DD1A
    I thought we had a pretty good chance for a win anyway with the errors and slips ups they have managed to do so far?
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 20th Jun 17, 3:02 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    DD1A
    POPLA
    P O BOX 1270
    WARRINGTON
    WA4 9RL
    07/06/2017 Verification number – *****
    Dear Sir/Madam,
    I wish to add to the attached notes that the appellant parked in a location that is a private land and all
    vehicles parked at the location must comply with parking rules stated on the signage at the location.
    As clearly stated by the signage at the location vehicles parked in this area must park within marked
    bays only and vehicles parked in the disabled bays must clearly display a valid blue badge in the
    windscreen, maximum of 3 hours free parking and no return within 2 hours.
    As clearly seen in the pictures see evidence F, F1, F2 and F3 provided by our traffic warden there was
    no blue badge in the windscreen of the vehicle at the time when the parking charge was issued,
    therefore the warden acted accordingly to the signage of the location, please see evidence B2, F9 and
    F10. Signage is allocated throughout the location, making it hard for motorists to miss the rules and
    regulations of the location, please see evidence F4-F8 the motorist states that the signage is not
    adequate enough for motorists to view and states they are not legitimate signs, however, Parking
    Ticketing LTD has regular checks and are monitored by the BPA and have passed the required
    standards and practises. Please see evidence E where motorist states that he will not disclose the
    driver of the vehicle so the liability falls onto the registered keeper, therefore POFA (2012) is not
    relevant. The bay in Which the motorist parked, is in fact a disabled bay as the bricks outlining the bay
    are wider to allow for disabled access, please see evidence F2 and F3 where you can note the change
    in bricks, Also please refer to evidence g1, G2 and G3 where the bay in question is clearly a disabled
    bay. The photograph the motorist has included in his appeal against us of one of the signs is not date
    or time stamped and has no proof of where this photograph was taken therefore is not relevant. It
    must be also noted that each signage contains customer service number of which the motorist could
    have telephoned we would have advised the appellant of the appropriate action to take to ensure
    that parking charge notice was not issued.
    Supreme Court of the United Kingdom – Landmark court decision
    On the 4th November 2015 a landmark judgement was handed down in favour of a parking operator
    who took a motorist to court for non-payment of a parking charge. Further details on the case can
    be found here - https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc...80-judgment.pdf ). This
    case was seen as an important “test case” due to the complex legal arguments used by both sides.
    Therefore falls outside “The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999” and also falls
    outside Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss.
    Further to Case No: B2/2014/2010 In The Court of Appeal on the 23/04/15 between Parking Eye and
    Barry Beavis where the Judge ruled that the charge was not extravagant or unconscionable and that the Court should therefore not decline to enforce the Contract.

    In light of above we would suggest that the amount sought is fair and propionate and that the
    Appellants Appeal based upon GPOL of loss should be dismissed.
    We are not able to take into account mitigating circumstances. That an appellant feels he or she had
    good reason for breaching the terms of parking is not a reason for which we can allow an appeal.
    When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions
    of parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she
    abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking that are clearly displayed on the signs.
    Please see the contractual agreement with the land owner of the parking location (B) per signage of
    the location “Parking at this location is a contractual notice and you agree with terms and
    conditions”. Please note B1 is Terms and Conditions related to contract B. Please refer to Terms and
    Conditions B1 – 5.1 this point explain that our contract is for minimum of 12 months from date of
    confirmation of patrols and the contract shall continue thereafter for the same period if the client
    had not given the company 30 days’ notice of cancellation before the anniversary date.

    This post has been edited by D D: Today, 14:58
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jun 17, 12:12 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    provided by our traffic warden
    LOL! They think they have a 'traffic warden'!

    Do an email about the evidence being crap (edging a bay in 'wider bricks' doesn't make it clearly marked as a disabled bay at all!) but don't add new evidence you can't an they won't read comments unless they are brief.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 21st Jun 17, 12:36 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    DD1A
    There was very little time as POPLA wanted the appeal reply by the end of the day what was sent was,


    I am writing to you as I incorrectly entered the wrong data in the replys box and accidently submitted the form. I contacted the POPLA office this morning and a representative said it is ok to email in my response and that a note has been left on the system regarding this error.

    I would like to highlight that the PTL’s appeals page of the website (as seen in the evidence they have provided) has 2 fields “Entry Details” and “Driver Details”. The page would not let me submit the form with the driver fields empty so I had to copy and paste the “Entry Details” fields in order for the form to submit.

    After a recent visit to the parking area the signage and bay markings do not look in any shape of form like PTL have presented them in their evidence. Their pictures show the year dated 2013 which was when this area had just been developed and everything had not been weathered and worn like they have now 4 years on. I have added pictures of the current sight to my first appeal letter to POPLA.

    I would like to point out their failure to comply with the Notice To Keeper which was not at ''debt collection stage'' which I have also covered in my first letter with a copy of the email from BPA. Why do the BPA fail to understand their own CoP? A NTK whether issued by a parking firm or their agent cannot exceed their own which is already exorbitantly inflated.

    Private landowners must make "reasonable adjustments" for anyone who qualifies, regardless of whether they have a BB or not.
    In fact making a BB a requirement of such could itself be discriminatory.
    I would also like to point out that no grace was issued and that the pictures confirm no grace period of at least 10 minutes was applied to the start of parking, and base that on the BPA CoP which defines 11minutes for leaving the space and point out that while the start is undefined, it must be MORE than 10 minutes because more actions are involved - such as locating, reading and deciding to accept the contents of any signs.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Jun 17, 7:10 AM
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    Umkomaas
    PTL's evidence reads like it was written by a child!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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