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  • FIRST POST
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:09 AM
    • 21Posts
    • 6Thanks
    DD1A
    POPLA Stage and need advise please
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 12:09 AM
    POPLA Stage and need advise please 18th May 17 at 12:09 AM
    Hello a bit of a run down of whats been going on

    7/4/2017 Friday evening have to say it was a first day with a lot of sun so the car park was rammed and spaces were clearly limited. Poor visibility of the bay due to big truck in the way unclear markings and no disabled signage, behind was car after car also impatiently looking to park so the next available space was taken unknowing it was a disabled bay. Are these legitimate bays, there was no visible blue signs on posts stating they were disabled, lines around bays are marked correctly
Page 2
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th May 17, 10:19 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    I received an email from bpa complaining that they can't send a letter like this and this is the reply,


    Thank you for your reply.

    We advise in the BPA AOS Code of Practice Section 19.5 that we would not expect the full amount of the charge (when issued) to exceed £100 and that a minimum 40% reduction be offered for payment made within 14 days of the date of the Notice, this being in alignment with the Code. In reviewing the Notice that you have received, it states that a Notice to Driver was issued to the vehicle on the date of the alleged contravention (7th April 2017). This is when the Parking Charge Notice was first issued. If the original Notice to Driver requested an amount exceeding £100, please provide evidence of this.

    As previously advised, a parking operator may enlist a third party company to issue Notice to Keepers on their behalf, and in these circumstances, the third party company may add on their own administration costs. PCS Facilities Limited have issued this Notice to Keeper on behalf of Parking Ticketing Ltd.

    In reviewing the previous email sent to you, we have been unable to locate any mention of the charge being at the ‘Debt collection stage’ as you have quoted.

    There has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and as such, we are unable to assist you further.

    Yours Sincerely,
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 19th May 17, 7:18 PM
    • 1,640 Posts
    • 912 Thanks
    Ian011
    The premium rate 0845 number detailed in a previous message from the parking firm does breach the BPA code. Additionally, not mentioning the call costs immediately alongside such a number also breaches Ofcom regulations.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 17, 8:43 PM
    • 45,879 Posts
    • 58,876 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I received an email from bpa complaining that they can't send a letter like this and this is the reply,


    Thank you for your reply.

    We advise in the BPA AOS Code of Practice Section 19.5 that we would not expect the full amount of the charge (when issued) to exceed £100 and that a minimum 40% reduction be offered for payment made within 14 days of the date of the Notice, this being in alignment with the Code. In reviewing the Notice that you have received, it states that a Notice to Driver was issued to the vehicle on the date of the alleged contravention (7th April 2017). This is when the Parking Charge Notice was first issued. If the original Notice to Driver requested an amount exceeding £100, please provide evidence of this.

    As previously advised, a parking operator may enlist a third party company to issue Notice to Keepers on their behalf, and in these circumstances, the third party company may add on their own administration costs. PCS Facilities Limited have issued this Notice to Keeper on behalf of Parking Ticketing Ltd.

    In reviewing the previous email sent to you, we have been unable to locate any mention of the charge being at the ‘Debt collection stage’ as you have quoted.

    There has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and as such, we are unable to assist you further.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Originally posted by DD1A



    Dear Thomas Briody (or is it one of the ladies?),

    I would point out that your email incorrectly referred to debt collection stage. You said: 'as per the collection process'.

    This is not at debt collection stage. This is at first appeal stage for a registered keeper, the first notice for me. As you know (but quite clearly, the BPA has decided to water down the code again) a so-called 'notice to keeper' from one of your eminent AOS member firms or their even more dubious agents, is the first time that a keeper hears about a PCN if they were unaware of any windscreen ticket.

    Have you forgotten that under the POFA, a NTK issued under Paragraph 8 of Schedule 4 must repeat the information on a PCN?

    A PCN and sign cannot state one thing, then the first a keeper hears about the matter (without even seeing a sign or perhaps ever being at the location at all) is a NTK exceeding the BPA ceiling. Clearly this is a breach of the maximum parking charge £100 mandatory maximum, or has that too been erased and eroded over time, like many other points in the code that no longer exist?

    I recall when Patrick Troy used to say you 'put the motorist at the heart of your thinking'. Has that thought gone with him?

    kind regards,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-05-2017 at 8:47 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 21st May 17, 12:39 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    Thanks for this information, are you issuing this for me to use as reference or forward on?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st May 17, 8:59 AM
    • 12,697 Posts
    • 19,535 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thanks for this information, are you issuing this for me to use as reference or forward on?
    Originally posted by DD1A
    That's a CM special for you to copy, paste and send on. You won't get better.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 21st May 17, 9:42 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    Much appreciated ����
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 22nd May 17, 9:40 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    This was Thomas's reply

    Thank you for your reply.

    When mentioning the ‘Collection process’ we were referring to the process of the operator (or any third party) collecting payment for a Parking Charge Notice, rather than specifically referring to a charge being at the debt recovery stage, as can be evidenced by the fact that no mention of ‘debt recovery’ was present in the earlier email to yourself. We apologise if this terminology has caused confusion.

    The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) is a piece of legislation introduced to provide Keeper Liability. This means if the Operator does not know the name and address of the driver they can hold the keeper liable under this legislation. To do this, they will need to meet the requirements contained within POFA. It is not mandatory that an operator uses POFA when issuing a parking charge notice. There is no legal requirement to do so as advised by the parking operator. It is at the discretion of the individual parking company as to whether they choose to utilise use POFA (2012). If no mention of POFA (2012) is made on the parking charge notice the strict timescales as advised in Schedule 4 are not therefore applicable. In reviewing the Notice that you have provided a copy of, we have been unable to locate any mention of POFA, and as such it would appear as though this Notice has not been issued utilising POFA.

    As previously advised, we have reviewed the information you have provided and can advise that there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance. If you wish to appeal this charge further, an appeal should be submitted to POPLA.

    Any further complaints in relation to the amount of the PCN should be directed at the operator.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Thomas Briody
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd May 17, 9:54 AM
    • 12,697 Posts
    • 19,535 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    If the PPC is not utilising PoFA (nicely corroborated by that email from the BPA) they are barking up the wrong tree by pursuing the keeper.

    If they have no proof as to who the driver was (and there's been no admission from you - I've not re-read the entire thread) then this should, of its own, be a slam dunk for you at POPLA - suitably aided and abetted by that very helpful BPA email, a copy of which you will be submitting as part of your POPLA appeal.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 22nd May 17, 6:57 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    Are you referring to the last reply from Thomas? Sounds pleasing but a bit worried as the evidence photos on the ppc website show the driver standing by the vehicle with the keys in hand :/
    woukd it be a good idea to remove all profile pictures from social media etc in case a name search is done to put the 2 together?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd May 17, 7:08 PM
    • 45,879 Posts
    • 58,876 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They could have ten photos of the driver...but no name for the face. They aren't the Police you know! Yes, remove images from Social Media unless the driver has a twin.

    That email from the very clearly 'pro-PPC' Thomas Briody is shameful, IMHO. The way they fob off all complaints seen on forums these days, encompasses some of the many noticeable issues that have dragged the BPA down in recent years, from a position where they used to listen to the public and investigate complaints properly. How can they BPA now, years later, water down the clear £100 ceiling at first notice/first appeal stage, regardless of whether it's a POFA version or not?

    Jeez, why not just go the whole hog and pile on even more imaginary extra costs shall we? Why don't the BPA add another £20 to it for getting involved, why not? No-one stops them...the entire industry is built on greed, it seems to us.

    Anything goes, it seems. Shameful to support a sum similar to that extorted under the old criminal act of clamping and think that's OK.

    However, I absolutely LOVE the fact he has just handed you the evidence for a slam dunk winning POPLA appeal for the registered keeper! Hilarious!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 22-05-2017 at 7:14 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 23rd May 17, 10:13 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    Is it advisable to use a template along the the line of the POFA appeals I can only see ones relating to parkingeye
    Also is it best to go in full length detail of whole situation of conditions, pcn, first appeal issues with pcc not handling correct details at first making them aware they were wrong then appeal was resubmitted after them realising it was wrong, messages to bpa and the slip up email I received?
    Also when you mention pictures am I attaching all the pictures I have attached here the parking conditions pcn ntk and screenshot of reply.

    Or just proceed with the mess up they've done with ntk and reply from bpa etc?

    Sorry for all the questions definitely a newbie
    Last edited by DD1A; 23-05-2017 at 10:26 PM.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 23rd May 17, 10:48 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DD1A
    I was reading through all comms to pcc and bpa and no details of the driver has been stated, the pcc website for appeals felt a little bit of a trap and recall the form being awkward to submit without all fields filled. I selected "I am the keeper but not the driver" but the next fields were driver details and your details which I tried to leave driver blank and it wouldn't not submit and The details were copied and pasted in these fields also :|
    Is this going to be a problem?

    Their stupid website don't even work I tried to check the page again and you just get a page error
    http://www.parkingticketing.co.uk/index.ph...al-appeals.html

    Last edited by DD1A; 23-05-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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