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  • FIRST POST
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:09 AM
    • 105Posts
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    DD1A
    POPLA Stage and need advise please
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 12:09 AM
    POPLA Stage and need advise please 18th May 17 at 12:09 AM
    Hello a bit of a run down of whats been going on

    7/4/2017 Friday evening have to say it was a first day with a lot of sun so the car park was rammed and spaces were clearly limited. Poor visibility of the bay due to big truck in the way unclear markings and no disabled signage, behind was car after car also impatiently looking to park so the next available space was taken unknowing it was a disabled bay. Are these legitimate bays, there was no visible blue signs on posts stating they were disabled, lines around bays are marked incorrectly
    Last edited by DD1A; 30-05-2017 at 11:30 PM.
Page 1
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:13 AM
    • 105 Posts
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    DD1A
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 12:13 AM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 12:13 AM
    i then sent an appeal on day 26 which was the 3/3/2017 wiith,

    Dear PTL

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers. There is no blue badge bay signages and the bay markings are not clear and do not conform to highway standards. Pictures were taken to prove and an additional picture of a correctly marked and signed blue badge bay also in Ashford.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 17, 12:14 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 12:14 AM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 12:14 AM
    OK, now is the time to use the POPLA templates from post #3 of the same NEWBIES thread. You need to show us your draft.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:23 AM
    • 105 Posts
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    DD1A
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 12:23 AM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 12:23 AM
    I then received a dead end email on 9/5/2017 that I could not reply to as it's come from a no reply email saying that I was out of the 28 days which is rubbish as I done the appeal at 8:30 on 3/5/2017 and received a confirmation email also.
    The details were completely wrong from my pcn
    Pcn number is correct
    My registration is correct
    The date of issue is incorrect, it's printed on the pcn 7/4/2017



    09/05/2017

    Dear Sir/Madam, PCN Ref: SAME AS PCN Registration: SAME AS PCN


    Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    As clearly stated on the reverse of the Parking Charge Notice issued, on the Appeals section, you have 28 days from the date of issue to appeal the PCN, either online or by post.

    The appeal you have sent in is outside the time given as the PCN was issued on 20/03/2017 and the appeal you submitted was on 05/05/2017 therefore outside the time limit given. Therefore, your right to appeal now has expired and cannot be considered.

    After 28 days without notice from driver the case is passed to Debt Recovery Company, we assume that you have received notification from them recently. At that stage the PCN has risen and you will need to correspond directly with them to resolve.

    The responsibility to observe and obey parking restrictions is yours and as we operated correctly in this instance.

    You may also proceed with the payment via on-line on our website .payptl.co.uk you can
    view the photographic evidence also which clearly shows the PCN attached to the vehicles windscreen.



    Yours sincerely,


    Appeals Dept.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:25 AM
    • 105 Posts
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    DD1A
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 12:25 AM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 12:25 AM
    on the 10/5/2017 i reported this to BPA with the following,

    Hello,

    I am writing to you in regards to a pcn which has been correctly appealed within the 28 days specified but the company PTL have taken no notice of the appeal and replied with false incorrect information and simply highlighting the fact that dept collectors are being enforced which is unacceptable.
    I have attached the email at the very bottom of this one which was received from one of your members PTL and would like your feedback regarding this matter. A POPLA code was requested within the original appeal but this was also ignored.
    Attached is the pcn as evidence of date it was received, the original appeal sent to PTL in PDF form, photos of where the pcn was received with a comparable example of a blue badge bay which complies with the Code of Practice and the confirmation of the appeal being received by PTL which does not correspond with the dates and times in PTL's reply.
    I have no way to reply to this email as it was sent from a no reply outbox which you can see from the forwarded details above the email please see below.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:31 AM
    • 105 Posts
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    DD1A
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 12:31 AM
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 12:31 AM
    BPA replied on the 15/5/2017 saying they have contacted the operator requesting further info and will be in touch which they have not yet so far.

    i also contacted PTL again on the 13/5/2017 and stated they have replied to my appeal with incorrect details they replied on the 15th also with,

    Thank you for your email.

    We had look in to it and can confirm that wrong letter was sent to you. We do apologize for any inconvenience.

    We would advise you that your appeal has been reopened and resent to appeals department. You will receive their reply within 5 working days.

    Please note if you have received any letter from debt recovery company recently please ignore it as we have just advised them to reopen your appeal.

    Kind Regards

    Parking Ticketing Ltd.

    We did receive a dept recovery letter from PCS demanding £120 which came through the door on the 15th also
    Last edited by DD1A; 18-05-2017 at 12:33 AM.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:35 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 12:35 AM
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 12:35 AM
    I also reported this on the 16/5/2017 to BPA with the following,

    Hello,
    Can I ask why this parking firm is allowing 'PCS' aka Debt Recovery Plus' to send us a Notice to Keeper which exceed the BPA maximum of £100. I am pretty sure this is a serious breach of the BPA CoP because neither the parking firm nor 'PCS' has permission from the BPA to charge more than £100 and this is an appeal stage (NTK stage) not a debt collection stage, so £120 is disallowed.

    but still not yet recieved a response from the last email i got from them
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:40 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 12:40 AM
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 12:40 AM
    I then received the response from the appeal with,

    Dear Sir/Madam PCN Ref: ********** Registration: *******
    POPLA Code: *********


    Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued under the terms of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    There are Warning Signs situated on the site that state; Warning, Private Property, vehicles parked in disabled bays must clearly display a valid blue badge in the windscreen. Failure to comply will result in the vehicle being issued with a Parking Charge Notice without any notice given. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you and the Warden we have decided to reject your appeal for the reason below.

    As the vehicle was parked in disabled bay without a valid blue badge in the windscreen, (having checked photographs of when the vehicle was issued with the PCN), you can view the photographic evidence yourself online at ( payptl.co.uk ) as clearly stated on the warning signs, the vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice.

    We have considered your reason for appeal but unfortunately the operative has to see clearly a blue badge in the windscreen when inspecting. This may include a location number, vehicle registration number, expiry date, security features.

    We are sorry but we won’t be accepting your appeal on this occasion as the warden acted accordingly to the signage at the location.

    We are not able to take into account mitigating circumstances. That an appellant feels he or she had good reason for breaching the terms of parking is not a reason for which we can allow an appeal. When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking that are clearly displayed on the signs.

    Supreme Court of the United Kingdom – Landmark court decision
    On the 4th November 2015 a landmark judgement was handed down in favour of a parking operator who took a motorist to court for non-payment of a parking charge.


    Further details on the case can be found here - supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment.pdf. This case was seen as an important “test case” due to the complex legal arguments used by both sides. Therefore falls outside “The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999” and also falls outside Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss.

    The responsibility to observe and obey parking restrictions is yours and as we operated correctly in this instance due to the vehicle being incorrectly parked we will not be accepting your appeal, on this occasion.

    You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

    Due to above you appeal is refused, you now have the following options:

    1 Pay the PCN at £100within 14 days of above date. Please note that after this time if you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures which will lead to costs being added to £150 and we may proceed with Court action against you. Please visit ptlappeals.co.uk/county-court to view County Court Judgments where we have been successful in obtaining judgment for non-payment of the PCN costing the defendant at least 3 times the original amount of the original £60 PCN. We do not enter into multiple appeals.
    2
    Make an appeal to POPLA-Independent Appeals Service within 28 days by visiting popla.co.uk and completing the appeal form online quoting POPLA appeal reference **********. If you prefer to complete your appeal in writing please contact Parking Ticketing Ltd on 0845 689 45 45 to request the POPLA appeal forms.

    3 Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the full charge of £100.00 will be payable should your appeal be unsuccessful. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. Please visit ptlappeals.co.uk/refused-appeals to view other motorists appeals to POPLA against ourselves, that were refused for various appeal reasons and the PCN was at the original full cost of £100.






    Yours sincerely


    Appeals Dept.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:43 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 12:43 AM
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 12:43 AM
    An appeal has not been submitted with the POPLA code thinking of appealing properly as It's a poor response received from PTL. It's clear that this lame disabled parking bay is a money making scam its private land poorly signed and poorly marked bays as shown in the photos also when viewing the PTL website it says a certain % of tickets go to the landlord! As someone clearly stated in a post it's a honeypot.
    The main point that's being put across is that the disabled bay is not clear or visible with markings and a blue badge sign presented on a post at the end of the bay, it is just a trap for victims to fall into which is what it is seems to be.


    Obviously wanting to avoid failure at this stage and worried about the worded approach with bpa and the POPLA number.

    One thing that should be pointed out now the pictures have been checked on the website, the person was captured in the ptl evidence picture standing at the rear of the car holding keys and facing the camera ������ Will this make any difference?
    Basically if they check a social site with the name of the person appealing it'll be easy to put 2 and 2 together


    This post has been edited by D D: Today, 22:37
    Last edited by DD1A; 18-05-2017 at 11:40 PM.
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 12:47 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    when will i be able to post links for images?

    you can see them here -> forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112937&st=40
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 18th May 17, 8:52 AM
    • 6,483 Posts
    • 8,316 Thanks
    beamerguy
    when will i be able to post links for images?

    you can see them here -> forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112937&st=40
    Originally posted by DD1A
    For the moment, upload to a free hosting site like photobucket and
    post the link here using hxxp and not http
    Someone will make it live

    Redact all personal info
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 1:13 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    I also received a reply from BPA

    Good morning,

    Thank you for your patience while we looked into your enquiry.

    We have contacted the operator who have advised us that due to a system error, no appeal outcome (containing a POPLA Code) was provided to you in response to your appeal.

    Once made aware of this, the operator has confirmed that your appeal was re-opened and investigated as per their processes.

    An appeal outcome containing a Valid POPLA code was issued to you by the operator on 18th May 2017.

    As the operator have rectified the situation by processing your appeal and subsequently providing you with a POPLA code to allow you to further appeal, we will now close this case.

    In relation to the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) you have received from PCS, we advise that in some instances, an operator may utilise a third party company to issue their PCN’s. when this occurs, the third party company may add their own administration costs to the PCN, as per the collection process.

    Please note that the BPA are not an appeals service, and a further appeal should be submitted to POPLA directly (should you wish to further appeal).

    Yours Sincerely,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 17, 11:33 PM
    • 51,886 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Repy to that email from the BPA and copy in David Dunford at the DVLA, and say 'oh no they cannot' (or words to that effect).

    Say this:



    This is NOT ''debt collection stage''. Why do the BPA fail to understand their own CoP? A NTK (whether issued by a parking firm or their agent) cannot exceed your own - already exorbitantly inflated, and please don't insult me trying to justify it with the Beavis case - stated mandatory ceiling of £100.

    Please reply with a more informed response or escalate it to a Manager who does know the Code. This remains a formal complaint about PCS/Debt Recovery Plus and the parking firm (both jointly liable for a significant breach of the CoP) and you must record my email as a complaint, not resolved and not a 'query'.

    PCS (aka Debt Recovery Plus) cannot issue a NTK for £120 any more than an AOS member parking operator could. It is ludicrous that the BPA misleads consumers by suggesting that that it can, just because some in the BPA appear not to understand the difference between 'NTK stage' (appeal) and any later ''debt collection stage''.



    P.S. Search the forum for 'dunford' to find his email as I get bored typing it every day!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-05-2017 at 11:38 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 11:35 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    One thing that should be pointed out now the pictures have been checked on the website, the person was captured in the ptl evidence picture standing at the rear of the car holding keys and facing the camera ������ Will this make any difference?
    Basically if they check a social site with the name of the person appealing it'll be easy to put 2 and 2 together
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 17, 11:39 PM
    • 51,886 Posts
    • 65,532 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    None check social sites to put 2 and 2 together.

    Some here would say that parking firms generally don't possess the brain cells between them, to add up 2 and 2.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 18th May 17, 11:51 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    I cannot seem to find the dunford thread containing the email..
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 17, 11:56 PM
    • 51,886 Posts
    • 65,532 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Sorry - you mean the 1,000 threads...this past year alone...I post it too often and (sorry) am bored with it. And I believe newbies are best learning how to use the forum search properly, to your advantage - you will find LOADS!

    You are searching wrong. Search THIS BOARD, not the whole MSE site.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th May 17, 12:34 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    Al done email sent cc'd dunford to and attached a pcs doc uncovered with details revealed so they know it's legitimate.

    Do I still do the POPLA process as well or wait to hear back from the BPA/dunford as the 14 day clock is ticking now
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th May 17, 9:30 AM
    • 40,521 Posts
    • 80,919 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Al done email sent cc'd dunford to and attached a pcs doc uncovered with details revealed so they know it's legitimate.

    Do I still do the POPLA process as well or wait to hear back from the BPA/dunford as the 14 day clock is ticking now
    Originally posted by DD1A
    Construct your draft PoPLA appeal using the template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES thread then post it here for checking.
    If this is not resolved in time, send it to PoPLA once checked by the regulars, and don't miss the appeal deadline.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

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    • DD1A
    • By DD1A 19th May 17, 10:19 AM
    • 105 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    DD1A
    I received an email from bpa complaining that they can't send a letter like this and this is the reply,


    Thank you for your reply.

    We advise in the BPA AOS Code of Practice Section 19.5 that we would not expect the full amount of the charge (when issued) to exceed £100 and that a minimum 40% reduction be offered for payment made within 14 days of the date of the Notice, this being in alignment with the Code. In reviewing the Notice that you have received, it states that a Notice to Driver was issued to the vehicle on the date of the alleged contravention (7th April 2017). This is when the Parking Charge Notice was first issued. If the original Notice to Driver requested an amount exceeding £100, please provide evidence of this.

    As previously advised, a parking operator may enlist a third party company to issue Notice to Keepers on their behalf, and in these circumstances, the third party company may add on their own administration costs. PCS Facilities Limited have issued this Notice to Keeper on behalf of Parking Ticketing Ltd.

    In reviewing the previous email sent to you, we have been unable to locate any mention of the charge being at the ‘Debt collection stage’ as you have quoted.

    There has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and as such, we are unable to assist you further.

    Yours Sincerely,
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