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  • FIRST POST
    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 12:18 PM
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    janninew
    Excessive Speeds Through Housing Estate
    • #1
    • 17th May 17, 12:18 PM
    Excessive Speeds Through Housing Estate 17th May 17 at 12:18 PM
    Afternoon All,

    Seeking some advice on speeding cars through my built up estate please. I live on a new build estate, lots of children, family parks and green areas and a 4g football pitch. The speed limit through the estate is 20mph but i'd guess at least 80% of cars are far exceeding this. A young boy was knocked over a fortnight ago, luckily only suffered a broken leg, there was a serious car crash last Friday and a house on the corner plot had a car drive through the fence into the garden. I keep saying its a matter of time until somebody is killed.

    The road has recently been resurfaced so its now completely flat and smooth and quite wide, perfect for high speeds! Previously when houses were being built there were some very extreme speed bumps, these didn't bother me and slowed the cars down. When the road was resurfaced they didn't put the speed bumps back in, in fact they've not even painted road markings!

    I'm the neighborhood watch rep and I've contacted the police who told me 20mph speed limit zones are unenforceable and legally the road has no speed limits so they couldn't take action if somebody was driving at 80mph through the estate! Surely roads should be 30mph until the 20mph limit is enforced?! Makes no sense to me having 20 zones.

    I've contacted the council, they aren't interested as its a private road. I've contact the management company who say the council have said no to speed bumps?! Not sure I believe this though.

    Feeling like I've hit a brick wall now and its frustrating.

    Many times at night you hear cars tearing down and occasionally feel fear because they are going so fast its unbelievable.

    I fear for the children who are playing out, especially as summer approaches.

    I'm no goody two shoes and occasionally speed myself, I think most drivers do. But never on a built up area to these crazy extremes.

    Any further advice anybody can think of (other than move house!)
    Thanks for reading!
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
Page 2
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 18th May 17, 8:52 AM
    • 6,221 Posts
    • 5,013 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00402/SN00402.pdf
    Section 9

    edited to change link.
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 18-05-2017 at 9:48 AM.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 18th May 17, 9:11 AM
    • 15,292 Posts
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    AdrianC
    That's not one of the more useful replies I've ever seen here...

    Apart from the minor detail that the OP hasn't said whether the roads on their estate are adopted or unadopted, the ninth result (if that's what you mean by "Section 9") from that search for me gives a Florida link - or a Washington state one, if you ignore the (Connecticut) highlighted result.

    I presume you mean section 9 of the Parliamentary briefing paper, the 7th/8th result down the list?
    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00402/SN00402.pdf
    Again, not the most helpful of results...
    9 Speeding
    Further information on speed limits and enforcement more generally can be found in HC Library standard note SN/BT/468
    Local authorities have powers to regulate traffic in their areas via Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs) as a result of the 1984 Act. The powers are generally exercisable in relation to “roads”, the word “road” being defined in section 142 of the 1984 Act in the same way as in the 1988 Act, as “any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes”.

    Speed limits apply to “roads”, as defined above. There is a general speed limit of 30 mph for “restricted roads”, and a road is a restricted road if it has a system of street lighting with lights less than 200 yards apart. However the local authority can include or exclude roads from the category of “restricted roads”, as it thinks fit. The 200-yard rule is thus not absolute. Apart from this general limit, there is power to vary speed limits on roads. A private road to which the public has access may or may not have a speed limit, but if it has street lights less than 200 yards apart the 30 mph limit is likely to apply. Local authorities have a general power to put up traffic signs. If a private road is a “restricted road” because of its lighting, a speeding offence may be committed even if there are no signs indicating the speed limit; but if the road is restricted by virtue of a decision by the local authority, no speeding offence can be committed in the absence of signs.
    The link to Standard Note 468 (which is generic speed limit legislation) doesn't work - but google finds it at
    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00468/SN00468.pdf
    • Hedgehog99
    • By Hedgehog99 18th May 17, 9:23 AM
    • 1,338 Posts
    • 2,778 Thanks
    Hedgehog99
    There' a chance the road surfacing people are waiting for the new surface to settle in before re-painting any markings? Round here, that can be a long time.

    ...or perhaps they're planning to use planters and parking bays to make chicanes instead of speed humps?

    Meanwhile, you and your neighbours could set up your own speedwatch group if the police won't do it - they should offer you training and loan of equipment.

    I drove along a road yesterday where someone had put a 30 mph sign on their wheelie bin, so you could all put 20 mph stickers on your bins until any new official signs go up?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 18th May 17, 9:42 AM
    • 15,292 Posts
    • 13,623 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I don't care how useful you think it is. I spotted it and added a link here for the op to use or disregard.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    You posted a generic link to a google search that may - or may not - have contained the actual result you wanted to point them to.

    Why not just go the whole hog, and link to LMGTFY...?
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 18th May 17, 9:51 AM
    • 6,221 Posts
    • 5,013 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    You posted a generic link to a google search that may - or may not - have contained the actual result you wanted to point them to.

    Why not just go the whole hog, and link to LMGTFY...?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    I posted the wrong link, now edited. Thanks for the critique of my post, very useful.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • harrys dad
    • By harrys dad 18th May 17, 11:54 AM
    • 1,816 Posts
    • 2,034 Thanks
    harrys dad

    lastly, are they speeding that badly? Or just loud cars? I've had a tonne of verbal abuse when out driving my kitcar, despite being behind someone doing 30, i get "slow down you hooligan" from folks on the footpaths, purely because the car so damn loud.
    Originally posted by strider590
    quieten down you hooligan
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 18th May 17, 6:11 PM
    • 11,613 Posts
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    Strider590
    There' a chance the road surfacing people are waiting for the new surface to settle in before re-painting any markings? Round here, that can be a long time.
    Originally posted by Hedgehog99
    True that, on my route to work they've dug up 6 roads and counting, they dig up the road, move on, dig up another, move on, then a month later they get back around to fixing the first road etc.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

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    • Mobeer
    • By Mobeer 19th May 17, 1:06 PM
    • 1,701 Posts
    • 4,381 Thanks
    Mobeer
    We have had similar issues on our estate. The developers put up their own 20 mph signs to discourage contractors driving too fast when construction was underway; these had no legal value and were taken down as the road approaches adoption (with a 30 mph limit). Some early residents complained bitterly about this but got nowhere.

    Speed bumps or other restrictions have been ruled out because the road is seen by the council as a through road where traffic should be, rather than other streets that are considered residential.

    If I had children to worry about I would move.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 19th May 17, 1:23 PM
    • 2,865 Posts
    • 6,492 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    ...I drove along a road yesterday where someone had put a 30 mph sign on their wheelie bin, so you could all put 20 mph stickers on your bins until any new official signs go up?
    Originally posted by Hedgehog99
    I got done for doing 150 along a residential road.

    I told the copper that I thought that the speed limit was 150 as there was a 150 sign on a wheelie bin.

    Turned out the wheelie bin belonged to house number 150.
    Who'll remember the ones
    who only rode in them to die
    All their lives are just a smudge
    of smoke against the sky
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 19th May 17, 1:27 PM
    • 2,865 Posts
    • 6,492 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    Sitting on the side of the highway waiting to catch speeding drivers, a State Police Officer sees a car puttering along at 22 MPH. He thinks to himself, “This driver is just as dangerous as a speeder!” So he turns on his lights and pulls the driver over. Approaching the car, he notices that there are five old ladies — two in the front seat and three in the back - eyes wide and white as ghosts. The driver, obviously confused, says to him, “Officer, I don’t understand, I was doing exactly the speed limit! What seems to be the problem?”

    “Ma’am,” the officer replies, “You weren’t speeding, but you should know that driving slower than the speed limit can also be a danger to other drivers.”

    “Slower than the speed limit?” she asked. No sir, I was doing the speed limit exactly... Twenty-Two miles an hour!” the old woman says a bit proudly. The State Police officer, trying to contain a chuckle explains to her that “22” was the route number, not the speed limit. A bit embarrassed, the woman grinned and thanked the officer for pointing out her error.

    “But before I let you go, Ma’am, I have to ask... Is everyone in this car ok? These women seem awfully shaken and they haven’t muttered a single peep this whole time.” the officer asks.

    “Oh, they’ll be alright in a minute officer. We just got off Route 119.”
    Who'll remember the ones
    who only rode in them to die
    All their lives are just a smudge
    of smoke against the sky
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 22nd May 17, 7:50 AM
    • 5,794 Posts
    • 5,274 Thanks
    Herzlos
    I never saw who put the signs up as they are at the front of the estate and just appeared when I was at work. They say '20mph zone' and are similar to others in the area. We had small speed limit signs when the developers were still building but these all were branded with the company logo and have now been removed.
    Originally posted by janninew
    Are the signs green (advisory) or red (legal)?

    There are very few roads with no speed limit, where they default to common sense 30/60.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 22nd May 17, 10:33 AM
    • 7,064 Posts
    • 2,827 Thanks
    almillar
    As I've already said a car has crossed the pavement and crashed into a corner house, so even pedestrians on pavements aren't safe.
    Did speed contribute to this crash? Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like a steering/hazard avoidance/inattention problem. Everyone (including you, the residents), shouldn't suffer because of one freak accident.

    If you want speed humps you might want to consider the extra emmisions the children will be breathing in from all the vehicles slowing down and speeding up.
    • fred246
    • By fred246 22nd May 17, 12:45 PM
    • 853 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    fred246
    It reminds me of an article I read a few years ago. The police had categorized causes of accidents. The commonest cause was 'lost control of the vehicle'. Towards the bottom was 'excessive speed'. Some people used this as 'proof' that speed was not the cause of accidents whereas the reality is that most people lose control because of excessive speed.
    There is an interesting speed bump on the way into my factory. I cycle to the left of the bump and so I'm not affected by it. Some people see a bicycle and have to overtake me. When they see the speed bump they have the option of aborting the overtake or hitting the speed bump at high speed. To be fair most people abort but some are so obsessed by overtaking they carry on. The noise is horrendous. I wonder how much damage is done. I imagine they're company cars. Cars on PCP etc. If you cared for your car you wouldn't do that.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd May 17, 12:51 PM
    • 15,292 Posts
    • 13,623 Thanks
    AdrianC
    It reminds me of an article I read a few years ago. The police had categorized causes of accidents. The commonest cause was 'lost control of the vehicle'. Towards the bottom was 'excessive speed'. Some people used this as 'proof' that speed was not the cause of accidents whereas the reality is that most people lose control because of excessive speed.
    Originally posted by fred246
    I remember seeing the original police statistics behind it, compiled at the scene of injury collisions.

    It wasn't _the_ cause, it was _a_ cause. So if somebody "lost control" because of "excessive speed", then "excessive speed" would have been listed as a cause.

    Also, "excessive speed (for the conditions, but within the speed limit)" was not only listed separately to "excessive speed (above the speed limit)", but was a much more common cause.

    Oh, and IIRC the single most common cause? Failing to observe properly at junctions.
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