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  • FIRST POST
    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 12:18 PM
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    janninew
    Excessive Speeds Through Housing Estate
    • #1
    • 17th May 17, 12:18 PM
    Excessive Speeds Through Housing Estate 17th May 17 at 12:18 PM
    Afternoon All,

    Seeking some advice on speeding cars through my built up estate please. I live on a new build estate, lots of children, family parks and green areas and a 4g football pitch. The speed limit through the estate is 20mph but i'd guess at least 80% of cars are far exceeding this. A young boy was knocked over a fortnight ago, luckily only suffered a broken leg, there was a serious car crash last Friday and a house on the corner plot had a car drive through the fence into the garden. I keep saying its a matter of time until somebody is killed.

    The road has recently been resurfaced so its now completely flat and smooth and quite wide, perfect for high speeds! Previously when houses were being built there were some very extreme speed bumps, these didn't bother me and slowed the cars down. When the road was resurfaced they didn't put the speed bumps back in, in fact they've not even painted road markings!

    I'm the neighborhood watch rep and I've contacted the police who told me 20mph speed limit zones are unenforceable and legally the road has no speed limits so they couldn't take action if somebody was driving at 80mph through the estate! Surely roads should be 30mph until the 20mph limit is enforced?! Makes no sense to me having 20 zones.

    I've contacted the council, they aren't interested as its a private road. I've contact the management company who say the council have said no to speed bumps?! Not sure I believe this though.

    Feeling like I've hit a brick wall now and its frustrating.

    Many times at night you hear cars tearing down and occasionally feel fear because they are going so fast its unbelievable.

    I fear for the children who are playing out, especially as summer approaches.

    I'm no goody two shoes and occasionally speed myself, I think most drivers do. But never on a built up area to these crazy extremes.

    Any further advice anybody can think of (other than move house!)
    Thanks for reading!
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
Page 1
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 17th May 17, 12:43 PM
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    onomatopoeia99
    • #2
    • 17th May 17, 12:43 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 17, 12:43 PM
    The local authority has the power to erect road signs and set speed limits and this includes private / unadopted roads.

    If the 20 limit is unenforceable, that suggests it isn't correctly signed and any good defence to a speeding prosecution would make it fail as a consequence. If there are street lights less than 200 yards apart, then the limit is 30 unless otherwise signed and this includes for unadopted roads.

    Talk to the council again, road signs are their responsibility as they set the limits. The police can't enforce a limit unless the limit is legally set and signed appropriately, and you haven't told us if this is the case or not.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
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    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 17th May 17, 12:47 PM
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    Johno100
    • #3
    • 17th May 17, 12:47 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 17, 12:47 PM
    I think the only option is to get the roads adopted by the council, have a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) put in place and then, assuming the council considers 20mph to be appropriate, try and get the police to enforce the limit.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 17th May 17, 12:53 PM
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    Strider590
    • #4
    • 17th May 17, 12:53 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 17, 12:53 PM
    First, the Police aren't going to enforce a limit on that road (not that it's actually the Police that carry out speed enforcement, rather the camera partnerships), speed limit are seemingly only enforced on dual-carriageways and long straight roads (and only if it's not foggy, wet, snowing, cold or dark).

    Second, be careful what you wish for, the sound of cars/vans/trucks going over speed bumps will keep you awake at night more than the speeding vehicles.

    Lastly, are they speeding that badly? or just loud cars? I've had a tonne of verbal abuse when out driving my kitcar, despite being behind someone doing 30, I get "SLOW DOWN YOU HOOLIGAN" from folks on the footpaths, purely because the car so damn loud.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

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    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 12:58 PM
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    janninew
    • #5
    • 17th May 17, 12:58 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 17, 12:58 PM
    Thank for the responses. I've been doing much research about 20mph zones being enforced and can find no definite answers. The main theme seems to be that they should be self enforced due to other traffic calming measures being used in these zones. Except there are no other traffic calming measures used on my estate, just a lovely, wide, smooth, flat road, perfect for high speeds...

    Also just ty add, there are the correct 20mph signs up throughout the estate.
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 1:03 PM
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    janninew
    • #6
    • 17th May 17, 1:03 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 17, 1:03 PM
    First, the Police aren't going to enforce a limit on that road (not that it's actually the Police that carry out speed enforcement, rather the camera partnerships), speed limit are seemingly only enforced on dual-carriageways and long straight roads (and only if it's not foggy, wet, snowing, cold or dark).

    Second, be careful what you wish for, the sound of cars/vans/trucks going over speed bumps will keep you awake at night more than the speeding vehicles.

    Lastly, are they speeding that badly? or just loud cars? I've had a tonne of verbal abuse when out driving my kitcar, despite being behind someone doing 30, I get "SLOW DOWN YOU HOOLIGAN" from folks on the footpaths, purely because the car so damn loud.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    The sound of cars going over the speed bumps never bothered me previously for the last 2 years we had them. In fact I can't say I remember hearing them!

    Yes most definitely speeding, sometimes that fast you'd struggle to see what type of car it is. I wish I were exaggerating, the damage done to the car on Friday was a sure sign of speed, the police were present as the drivers were injured. One of the cars was that badly damaged, the whole front end was demolished. Most of the cars are't your typical 'boy racer' cars but transit vans, saloon cars etc.
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
    • TonyMMM
    • By TonyMMM 17th May 17, 1:06 PM
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    TonyMMM
    • #7
    • 17th May 17, 1:06 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 17, 1:06 PM
    There are plenty of places where 20mph limits are enforced using cameras or speed guns.

    The important thing to check is that the roads have been adopted, there is a Traffic regulation order (TRO) in place establishing the limits, and the signs are correct (not just something put up by the developers).

    If all the above are in place - the limit can be enforced (if the police have the resources).
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 17th May 17, 1:16 PM
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    Car 54
    • #8
    • 17th May 17, 1:16 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 17, 1:16 PM
    First, the Police aren't going to enforce a limit on that road (not that it's actually the Police that carry out speed enforcement, rather the camera partnerships), speed limit are seemingly only enforced on dual-carriageways and long straight roads (and only if it's not foggy, wet, snowing, cold or dark).
    Originally posted by Strider590
    Really? That will come as news to the many motorists nicked every day by police occifers.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 17th May 17, 1:25 PM
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    Johno100
    • #9
    • 17th May 17, 1:25 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 17, 1:25 PM
    Thank for the responses. I've been doing much research about 20mph zones being enforced and can find no definite answers. The main theme seems to be that they should be self enforced due to other traffic calming measures being used in these zones. Except there are no other traffic calming measures used on my estate, just a lovely, wide, smooth, flat road, perfect for high speeds...

    Also just ty add, there are the correct 20mph signs up throughout the estate.
    Originally posted by janninew
    But who put the signs up? I'd hazard a guess it was probably the developers when they finished building the estate, if so they've no more standing than those 5, 10 or 15mph signs you see in supermarket car parks.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 17th May 17, 1:35 PM
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    AdrianC
    ...legally the road has no speed limits so they couldn't take action if somebody was driving at 80mph through the estate! Surely roads should be 30mph until the 20mph limit is enforced?!
    Originally posted by janninew
    Remember your driving test?

    Default speed limits always apply, unless there are sufficient regular reminders to make a different limit apply.
    Default is 30 if there are regular streetlights, NSL if there aren't.

    Legitimate, and properly signed, 20mph limits ARE enforceable - but should be self-enforcing through road furniture and speed calming measures. Many forces have chosen not to enforce them, but ACPO guidelines are that they should be enforced.

    http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2709.html
    • kmb500
    • By kmb500 17th May 17, 2:10 PM
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    kmb500
    Lastly, are they speeding that badly? or just loud cars? I've had a tonne of verbal abuse when out driving my kitcar, despite being behind someone doing 30, I get "SLOW DOWN YOU HOOLIGAN" from folks on the footpaths, purely because the car so damn loud.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    Ha, yes I've had that in my MX-5, which had a very loud exhaust. The fact I was driving perfectly safely within speed limits seemed to have no bearing, and people have shouted at me to slow down.
    • stator
    • By stator 17th May 17, 5:39 PM
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    stator
    If you get run over by a car doing 30mph on the road then it's your fault.
    30mph isn't fast.
    Stop, look, listen.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 17th May 17, 5:50 PM
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    unforeseen
    Remember your driving test?

    Default speed limits always apply, unless there are sufficient regular reminders to make a different limit apply.
    Default is 30 if there are regular streetlights, NSL if there aren't.

    Legitimate, and properly signed, 20mph limits ARE enforceable - but should be self-enforcing through road furniture and speed calming measures. Many forces have chosen not to enforce them, but ACPO guidelines are that they should be enforced.

    http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2709.html
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    It all depends on whether the LA has classified it as a 'restricted road'. If not then the 30MPH limit does not apply
    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 5:54 PM
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    janninew
    But who put the signs up? I'd hazard a guess it was probably the developers when they finished building the estate, if so they've no more standing than those 5, 10 or 15mph signs you see in supermarket car parks.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    I never saw who put the signs up as they are at the front of the estate and just appeared when I was at work. They say '20mph zone' and are similar to others in the area. We had small speed limit signs when the developers were still building but these all were branded with the company logo and have now been removed.
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 5:55 PM
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    janninew
    If you get run over by a car doing 30mph on the road then it's your fault.
    30mph isn't fast.
    Stop, look, listen.
    Originally posted by stator
    No idea what this post is about. Who is getting run over at 30mph?
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
    • pompeyrich
    • By pompeyrich 17th May 17, 6:49 PM
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    pompeyrich
    Not sure if you can set up on a "private road" but the Community speedwatch scheme seems to be catching on around Hampshire and might act as a deterrent in your area. My link appears to be for Sussex and Surrey but pretty sure it is a nationwide scheme

    They can report speeders and although this only leads to a warning letter from plod, it seems persistent offenders may be prosecuted and if a lot of speeding is noted the occasional "proper copper" lays in wait.
    Last edited by pompeyrich; 17-05-2017 at 6:51 PM.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 17th May 17, 6:51 PM
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    forgotmyname
    What have the parks and football pitches got to do with the speeding? Are cars speeding through the park and pitch?

    If you fear for children playing out, maybe start a campaign to get parents to teach their children to cross the road?

    So you admit to speeding yourself but its wrong for others to do the same?
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

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    • KrankieLad
    • By KrankieLad 17th May 17, 7:52 PM
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    KrankieLad
    We have them all over town and hardly anyone seems to stick to the limit. I do but get more frustrated by those tailgating because they don't like the fact you stick to the limit.
    • janninew
    • By janninew 17th May 17, 7:54 PM
    • 3,783 Posts
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    janninew
    What have the parks and football pitches got to do with the speeding? Are cars speeding through the park and pitch?

    If you fear for children playing out, maybe start a campaign to get parents to teach their children to cross the road?

    So you admit to speeding yourself but its wrong for others to do the same?
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    As I've already said a car has crossed the pavement and crashed into a corner house, so even pedestrians on pavements aren't safe.

    Yes I'll admit to speeding on the motorway, I've probably reached speeds of 80mph on the motorway along with many motorists, I'd never speed in a built up residential area which is heavily populated with young children.
    Newborn Thread Member

    'Children reinvent the world for you.' - Susan Sarandan
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 17th May 17, 8:15 PM
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    forgotmyname
    I wonder if they were drunk and not speeding?

    You could move, where i lived and grew up the roads were 30 and 40mph and nobody got run over.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
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