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  • FIRST POST
    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 17th May 17, 10:38 AM
    • 26Posts
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    jack123456
    ****Help with POPLA appeal****
    • #1
    • 17th May 17, 10:38 AM
    ****Help with POPLA appeal**** 17th May 17 at 10:38 AM
    Hi,


    I have had a PCN from Parking Eye, I have lodged an appeal and been unsuccessful, I gave no admission to who the driver was and used a template on another thread. I have a POPLA number and was hoping for some help please.


    I moved address so received the NTK two month after the event, as my address on the vehicle had not been changed by this point. So far, for my POPLA appeal I am going to state there is no admission to the driver and being the registered keeper, I am also going to state that there is little signage to confirm that they have ANPR in use as I have read that this is a reasonable ground for appeal.


    Any help would be appreciated!
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th May 17, 11:13 AM
    • 39,205 Posts
    • 78,334 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 17th May 17, 11:13 AM
    • #2
    • 17th May 17, 11:13 AM
    Please tell us which template you used? The "official" MSEW template is useless and gives away the driver's details. Hopefully you didn't use that one.

    Please read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES than construct your draft appeal by using all the template points available to you from post 3 of the aforementioned NEWBIES. Post your draft here before you submit it.

    Please provide the date of the alleged event and the date you received the NTK. Does it have a paragraph beginning something like, "if after 29 days ..." or is there a blank space as if something is missing? There is an example of this in the NEWBIES that you can compare your NTK against.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 17th May 17, 11:42 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    • #3
    • 17th May 17, 11:42 AM
    • #3
    • 17th May 17, 11:42 AM
    Hi, I used the template on the NEWBIES thread, I will get information from the NTK and post it later on, will check out the NEWBIES threat again, thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 17, 9:47 PM
    • 46,883 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 17th May 17, 9:47 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 17, 9:47 PM
    OK, now is the time to use the POPLA templates from post #3 of the same NEWBIES thread. Also, look there at the example of the non-POFA version of a ParkingEye PCN and check if your is a 'keeper liability/29 days' one or a 'golden winning ticket' (non-POFA)?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 18th May 17, 2:21 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 2:21 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 2:21 PM
    Thanks for your responses,


    So I've seen the templates for POPLA appeal which are great, the 'driver' advised me that they had attempted to pay for the ticket and the machine took the VRN and the money and malfuctioned at the point the ticket was due to be given.


    Can you on an appeal go with 'no admission to the drive' and confirming I am the registered keeper, and also with faulty ticket machine, or will they be contradicting?


    Thank you in advance.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 17, 11:59 PM
    • 46,883 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 11:59 PM
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 11:59 PM
    Can you on an appeal go with 'no admission to the drive' and confirming I am the registered keeper, and also with faulty ticket machine, or will they be contradicting?
    They would not contradict, if carefully worded.

    But with PE the former (no keeper liability) is only worth it if yours is a golden ticket, as I described earlier, and as shown in a link showing an example in the NEWBIES thread post #3.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 19th May 17, 2:43 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    • #7
    • 19th May 17, 2:43 PM
    • #7
    • 19th May 17, 2:43 PM
    I have checked the letter sent to my original address where the original letter was sent to, it has PCN across the top. It has a paragraph stating that under the POFA 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address etc etc then it warns me that after 29 days they have the right to recover funds etc.

    Second letter I received states that as they sent the original one where my vehicle was registered with the DVLA but they were not to know I lived at a different address and the address was provided by a Credit Reference Agency. They continue to say despite the fact they did not know they are willing to accept £40 if I pay within 14 days.
    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 19th May 17, 2:44 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    • #8
    • 19th May 17, 2:44 PM
    • #8
    • 19th May 17, 2:44 PM
    To add also, the date of the alleged event was 23/02/2017, th
    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 19th May 17, 2:46 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    • #9
    • 19th May 17, 2:46 PM
    • #9
    • 19th May 17, 2:46 PM
    The date that the letter was originally sent to my old address was 01/03/2017 and the date on the letter that was subsequently sent to me upon my new address being found was 26/04/2017
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 17, 10:15 PM
    • 46,883 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    OK, sounds normal, this happens all the time. Show us your draft POPLA appeal, look at some other recent ones over the weekend.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 19th May 17, 10:31 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    Will do! Thanks for your help so far, will have an appeal drafted up tomorrow.
    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 20th May 17, 10:10 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    POPLA draft appeal
    Hi,


    I have a very rough draft of the appeal to POPLA, it turns out after I have further examined the parking ticket that was issued and it was not even possible anyone could have been at the Hospital on the date given as I was in work on this date and had the car with me. The date the machine malfuctioned as I have been informed was on 31/01/2017. I understand that my appeal may be very poor and will most likely need to be re-worded, but any help at this point will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


    '
    Parking Eye Appeal


    PCN Number: xxxxxxxx


    POPLA Reference: xxxxxxxx





    Dear Sir/Madam,





    I am writing to appeal a PCN issued by Parking Eye, this was issued on 01/03/2017 for an alleged event that was on 23/02/2017 at Sunderland Royal Hospital. I am appealing as the registered keeper. I am exercising my right to not name the driver of the vehicle, nor will that be confirmed. I will also make you aware that the date of the alleged event is also incorrect; I have been made aware that the date of parking was 31/01/2017 and there was a machine malfunction with parking machine number to confirm this. There was no visit made to the aforementioned place on the date stated in the parking notice given by Parking Eye Ltd. I myself was in work on the day of the alleged event and I had the car with me on this date between the hours of xx-xx, so it is not possible that a visit could have been made during the stated times; I put it to you that Parking Eyes ANPR system is faulty and has incorrect dates.


    I have been informed by the driver at this point that the machine was not working properly; this meant that due to the failure of the machine to record the VRN correctly, it has shown as a failure against the VRN the payment made. I have been made aware that when the VRN and the payment was entered into the machine, it subsequently timed out, restarted and no ticket was produced, also, the machine did not give any money back so I am told. In good faith that the machine had accepted the money and the parking was paid for, the driver continued with what they were doing. I have been forwarded photo evidence of the machine in question and the number of the machine (PE0314) and these show as the Chester Road Wing car park.'
    • tboo
    • By tboo 20th May 17, 11:58 AM
    • 456 Posts
    • 1,488 Thanks
    tboo
    Hi,


    I have a very rough draft of the appeal to POPLA, it turns out after I have further examined the parking ticket that was issued and it was not even possible anyone could have been at the Hospital on the date given as I was in work on this date and had the car with me. The date the machine malfuctioned as I have been informed was on 31/01/2017. I understand that my appeal may be very poor and will most likely need to be re-worded, but any help at this point will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


    '
    Parking Eye Appeal


    PCN Number: xxxxxxxx


    POPLA Reference: xxxxxxxx





    Dear Sir/Madam,





    I am writing to appeal a PCN issued by Parking Eye, this was issued on 01/03/2017 for an alleged event that was on 23/02/2017 at Sunderland Royal Hospital. I am appealing as the registered keeper. I am exercising my right to not name the driver of the vehicle, nor will that be confirmed. I will also make you aware that the date of the alleged event is also incorrect; I have been made aware that the date of parking was 31/01/2017 and there was a machine malfunction with parking machine number to confirm this. There was no visit made to the aforementioned place on the date stated in the parking notice given by Parking Eye Ltd. I myself was in work on the day of the alleged event and I had the car with me on this date between the hours of xx-xx, so it is not possible that a visit could have been made during the stated times; I put it to you that Parking Eyes ANPR system is faulty and has incorrect dates.


    I have been informed by the driver at this point that the machine was not working properly; this meant that due to the failure of the machine to record the VRN correctly, it has shown as a failure against the VRN the payment made. I have been made aware that when the VRN and the payment was entered into the machine, it subsequently timed out, restarted and no ticket was produced, also, the machine did not give any money back so I am told. In good faith that the machine had accepted the money and the parking was paid for, the driver continued with what they were doing. I have been forwarded photo evidence of the machine in question and the number of the machine (PE0314) and these show as the Chester Road Wing car park.'
    Originally posted by jack123456

    More experierenced posters will comment more on the draft if it was to be sent, but wouldn't it be correct to insert where work was and get evidence that you were there

    (Sorry I lurk as I like to get clued up on all that is happening - I have helped a friend's husband - she was the RK he was the driver, she went mad and said to pay, so I said give them invoices of the expensive purchase - invoice cancelled)


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    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 20th May 17, 12:02 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    That's a valid point, I was expecting there to be many a change required to my draft, but that to me sounds like a valid point. The only thing to prove I am in would be a spreadsheet, which is how our scheduling works. Only other option may be to put a managers e-mail (with their permission) and request they can vouch for me being in work on that day.


    Good point though, thank you!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th May 17, 12:54 PM
    • 13,130 Posts
    • 20,471 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    @OP - the gist of what you've drafted is okay as part of a much longer and detailed appeal. The initial strategy is to make it so detailed that PE are just not prepared to put in the amount of effort to deal with every point you make. They therefore withdraw and concede your POPLA appeal, saving themselves manpower and the POPLA fee they would pay if they were to contest it. They do that many times.

    So go to the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3, where there are a number of ready written, lengthy appeal points (any of which should see POPLA uphold in your favour if it got to that stage) for you to copy and paste into your own. The appeal point you've drafted already will be added as a real 'killer' for PE to rebut, and hopefully they will throw their cards in.

    Also do a forum search on 'ParkingEye POPLA' and look at some of the recent appeals, many of which have resulted in concession. Use parts from those too, if appropriate.

    Let's see a full draft for critique and fine tuning before you submit to POPLA. Don't miss the POPLA deadline.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th May 17, 1:06 PM
    • 46,883 Posts
    • 60,213 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Agreed, that draft shows us an introductory point only. It needs all the usual templates designed to be so long & detailed that they drive a PPC away from bothering to contest.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 20th May 17, 1:52 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    The POPLA appeal online is only 2000 words isn't it? I've seen some very long appeals that would surely go over 2000 words, this may sound silly but how does that work?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th May 17, 2:00 PM
    • 46,883 Posts
    • 60,213 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The POPLA appeal online is only 2000 words isn't it?
    No. We've been doing ten page POPLA appeals for years! You upload the illustrated storybook appeal as a PDF under other, just as explained umpteen zillion times before...
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 20th May 17, 2:15 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    No. We've been doing ten page POPLA appeals for years! You upload the illustrated storybook appeal as a PDF under other, just as explained umpteen zillion times before...
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    My apologies, I had seen this before but my mind a bit boggled by the appeal as I have never had to do anything such as this before. My mistake.
    • jack123456
    • By jack123456 20th May 17, 3:32 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jack123456
    I have managed to get an appeal together, hopefully it's not too bad! Any feedback would be great!


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I am writing to appeal a PCN issued by Parking Eye, this was issued on 01/03/2017 for an alleged event that was on 23/02/2017 at Sunderland Royal Hospital. I am appealing as the registered keeper. I am exercising my right to not name the driver of the vehicle, nor will that be confirmed.

    I am appealing on the grounds of:

    • Parking Eye’s Parking Charge Notice is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) due to the dates given.
    • Faulty Payment Machine
    • ANPR Accuracy and Compliance

    1. Parking Eye’s Parking Charge Notice is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) due to the dates given.

    I wish to make you aware that the date of the alleged event is incorrect; I have been made aware that the date of parking was 31/01/2017 and there was a machine malfunction with a parking machine to confirm this (PE0314). There was no visit made to the aforementioned place on the date stated in the parking notice given by Parking Eye Ltd. The Notice to Keeper (NTK) must comply with paragraph 9, which stipulates as mandatory, a set timeline and wording:-

    The notice must be given by—
    (a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
    (b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
    The applicable section here is (b) because the Parking Charge Notice/NTK that I have received was delivered by post. Furthermore, paragraph 9(5) states:

    ’’The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended’’



    I am paying particular attention to the fact that the period of time that the notice must be received in the post is 14 days, as you can see by the below images, the dates on the machines are completely different from the dates stated in the alleged event. On the date in question of the parking event, I myself was at work during these times and I had the car with me, making it impossible for the car to be in the car park on the stated date. I work in Newcastle and this event was in Sunderland.



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