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  • FIRST POST
    • DarkShadow
    • By DarkShadow 16th May 17, 6:41 PM
    • 150Posts
    • 59Thanks
    DarkShadow
    Forced parenthood
    • #1
    • 16th May 17, 6:41 PM
    Forced parenthood 16th May 17 at 6:41 PM
    How do you define forced parenthood in your own terms?
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Page 2
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 17th May 17, 6:19 PM
    • 1,016 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    “ When they say they are on the pill etc but not taking it.
    Originally posted by jamiehelsinki

    The pill, even when taken properly, isn't 100% effective if it goes through the system faster than normal.

    A midwife friend tells me that she wouldn't like to estimate the number of babies born as a result of a dodgy curry.
    • Hard Up Hester
    • By Hard Up Hester 17th May 17, 8:44 PM
    • 2,831 Posts
    • 33,055 Thanks
    Hard Up Hester
    I knew someone who did this at swingers parties, he got caught one day removing the condom and got a punch on the nose from the husband of the woman he was bonking.
    Chin up, Titus out.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 9:00 PM
    • 11,775 Posts
    • 9,728 Thanks
    zagfles
    He lied to her, used her for sex and snooped through her phone, don't really think he can take the moral high ground on this one.
    Originally posted by mai_taylor
    Oh believe me he's had the lecture not least from his current gf who he's told everything to, and whose reaction was "well you're getting checked for STDs before I do anything with you"! Quite right too! She also got him to report the woman to the dating site to get her banned but don't know whether they did.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 9:04 PM
    • 11,775 Posts
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    zagfles
    It's not even remotely comparable, hurt feelings aren't even remotely the same as lying to someone to try get them to produce a child / child support they don't want
    Originally posted by gycraig
    Probably wasn't even "hurt feelings" as she never found out about the vasectomy. Probably thought she was just unlucky!
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 17th May 17, 10:29 PM
    • 12,305 Posts
    • 33,510 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    The pill, even when taken properly, isn't 100% effective if it goes through the system faster than normal.

    A midwife friend tells me that she wouldn't like to estimate the number of babies born as a result of a dodgy curry.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    ....and, out of interest, what did the women concerned tell the midwife as to why they didn't:
    - take extra precautions (as one is advised to do in those circumstances)

    OR

    - have an abortion

    OR

    - have the child adopted at birth

    I'm certainly wondering why a woman would forget about all three of those options to deal with "dodgy tummy = problem".
    ******************
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 17th May 17, 10:39 PM
    • 37,347 Posts
    • 33,675 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    ....and, out of interest, what did the women concerned tell the midwife as to why they didn't:
    - take extra precautions (as one is advised to do in those circumstances)

    OR

    - have an abortion

    OR

    - have the child adopted at birth

    I'm certainly wondering why a woman would forget about all three of those options to deal with "dodgy tummy = problem".
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    There's the 'happy surprise' baby where it's not a problem, even if unplanned. Just because you're taking the pill or using other methods doesn't mean another baby would be unwelcome.
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    • UKTigerlily
    • By UKTigerlily 18th May 17, 12:30 AM
    • 4,239 Posts
    • 5,236 Thanks
    UKTigerlily
    When they say they are on the pill etc but not taking it.
    Originally posted by jamiehelsinki

    Hardly, as if he didn't want a baby, he'd use condoms also, obviously. Why would it be 100% on the woman when things can cause failure of contraception, and she has to be on it all the time, not just when wanting sex *&* it affects her health?

    A man is an adult, and if responsible enough for sex, should learn to take responsibility for not becoming a Dad (him not liking condoms isn't an excuse, not saying it's yours, but most say that)
    2015 weight loss: 86/100Ibs
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 18th May 17, 7:50 AM
    • 11,775 Posts
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    zagfles
    Hardly, as if he didn't want a baby, he'd use condoms also, obviously. Why would it be 100% on the woman when things can cause failure of contraception, and she has to be on it all the time, not just when wanting sex *&* it affects her health?

    A man is an adult, and if responsible enough for sex, should learn to take responsibility for not becoming a Dad (him not liking condoms isn't an excuse, not saying it's yours, but most say that)
    Originally posted by UKTigerlily
    Yes things can go wrong, with condoms or the pill, but the PP was talking about lying about being on the pill, not refusing to take it. That's just as bad as lying about using a condom (or "stealthing"as it's apparently known as, strange there's not a word for the woman lying about protection).
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 18th May 17, 8:35 AM
    • 846 Posts
    • 1,878 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Yes things can go wrong, with condoms or the pill, but the PP was talking about lying about being on the pill, not refusing to take it. That's just as bad as lying about using a condom (or "stealthing"as it's apparently known as, strange there's not a word for the woman lying about protection).
    Originally posted by zagfles
    I find it very hard to believe that any woman wouldn't realise her partner wasn't wearing a condom.

    I think lying about taking the pill is only relevant in a long term committed relationship where there is supposed to be complete trust. Before that stage both parties should be taking their own measures and not relying on the other at all.

    Even then, its not 'forced' parenthood because as someone else says above, any adult having consensual sex should realise that there is always a small risk of pregnancy, even if everybody is doing everything they should be doing to prevent it! People have got pregnant on the pill, on implants, on the coil, all sorts.
    • wannabe sybil
    • By wannabe sybil 18th May 17, 9:28 AM
    • 2,728 Posts
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    wannabe sybil
    I find it very hard to believe that any woman wouldn't realise her partner wasn't wearing a condom.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    I think that's the bit that they see as a challenge. I don't know if you are male or female, but it is definitely possible to be fooled, especially if it is removed after the first few giddy moments.

    I don't have the courage to google for the details, but I'm sure you can find it out there.

    It isn't about women/men are bad and women/men are good. It's about some people are trustworthy and some aren't.
    Ankh Morpork Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick Dragons - don't let my flame go out!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 18th May 17, 10:16 AM
    • 13,462 Posts
    • 13,021 Thanks
    Guest101
    Hardly, as if he didn't want a baby, he'd use condoms also, obviously. Why would it be 100% on the woman when things can cause failure of contraception, and she has to be on it all the time, not just when wanting sex *&* it affects her health?

    A man is an adult, and if responsible enough for sex, should learn to take responsibility for not becoming a Dad (him not liking condoms isn't an excuse, not saying it's yours, but most say that)
    Originally posted by UKTigerlily
    Well it is an excuse, the obvious reply would be 'ok then, no sex'.
    • DFlights
    • By DFlights 18th May 17, 10:30 AM
    • 116 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    DFlights
    Don't get me started on stupid adults not using condoms! OH's son has just got his girlfriend of a few months pregnant, has never, to our knowledge, used a condom, and doesn't see why we're peed off at his stupidity (although he says that they planned this baby - meaning they probably just, at best, both said "Let's have a baby", at worst, they just didn't do birth control and the inevitable happened and they're both going along with it). He doesn't even get that STDs are a serious risk for men as well as women, and has never been to a clinic to get himself checked, or asked any girlfriends to do the same.
    And he's twenty years old (son, not OH!). We both think he's being an idiot, but hopefully he'll realise all this when reality bites hard.
    Last edited by DFlights; 18-05-2017 at 10:32 AM.
    • euronorris
    • By euronorris 18th May 17, 10:40 AM
    • 9,812 Posts
    • 45,332 Thanks
    euronorris
    Yes things can go wrong, with condoms or the pill, but the PP was talking about lying about being on the pill, not refusing to take it. That's just as bad as lying about using a condom (or "stealthing"as it's apparently known as, strange there's not a word for the woman lying about protection).
    Originally posted by zagfles


    The issue I have with this is, yes, there are a few women who would do that, but they are in the minority.


    However, a large number of men who find themselves becoming a father because of pill failure seem to automatically assume that they've been lied to. The trust they previously had for their partner seems to fly out of the window, despite all contraceptives clearly stating that they have a failure rate. They are not fool proof.


    But there seems to be a bad habit of automatically assuming that the woman lied, rather than accepting that the possibility of contraceptive failure was always there.
    • AubreyMac
    • By AubreyMac 18th May 17, 10:45 AM
    • 975 Posts
    • 2,415 Thanks
    AubreyMac
    Staying in a child's life only out of social stigma/pressure/shame of doing otherwise and having to pay child support could be seen as 'forced parenting'.


    I know a guy who is in this situation.
    • Alikay
    • By Alikay 18th May 17, 11:01 AM
    • 4,575 Posts
    • 12,366 Thanks
    Alikay
    Staying in a child's life only out of social stigma/pressure/shame of doing otherwise and having to pay child support could be seen as 'forced parenting'
    Originally posted by AubreyMac
    Yes, if you move away from the literal translation of "forced" there are lots of people in this position, including grandparents, aunts, uncles, older siblings etc who step up to the plate to parent children whose biological parents fail to do the job through death, illness or sheer uselessness.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 18th May 17, 11:14 AM
    • 846 Posts
    • 1,878 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Staying in a child's life only out of social stigma/pressure/shame of doing otherwise and having to pay child support could be seen as 'forced parenting'.


    I know a guy who is in this situation.
    Originally posted by AubreyMac
    You've got to feel sorry for that kid.
    • AubreyMac
    • By AubreyMac 18th May 17, 11:16 AM
    • 975 Posts
    • 2,415 Thanks
    AubreyMac
    Yes, if you move away from the literal translation of "forced" there are lots of people in this position, including grandparents, aunts, uncles, older siblings etc who step up to the plate to parent children whose biological parents fail to do the job through death, illness or sheer uselessness.
    Originally posted by Alikay
    Of course.


    There's also many cultures and generations who only have families because it's the 'done thing to do'.
    • AubreyMac
    • By AubreyMac 18th May 17, 11:17 AM
    • 975 Posts
    • 2,415 Thanks
    AubreyMac
    You've got to feel sorry for that kid.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    I do, but also to the father who feels trapped.
    • Starrystarrynight1
    • By Starrystarrynight1 18th May 17, 12:24 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 242 Thanks
    Starrystarrynight1
    An unplanned pregnancy where mother wants to keep the child but father does not. I guess he can't be forced to have a relationship with the child, but he's still a parent.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I used to be Starrystarrynight on MSE, before a log in technical glitch!
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 18th May 17, 1:52 PM
    • 4,177 Posts
    • 6,436 Thanks
    Gavin83
    I think lying about using contraceptives or lying about being able to have children when you can't should be a criminal offence. It's deception, plain and simple. Proving it might be a little more tricky though.

    I also think there should be more contraceptive options for men. Currently we have one choice, condoms and they aren't exactly great. If there were more options available I think you'd find more men willing to take responsibility for contraception. As it stands most are for women which is why most of the time they take on the responsibility for such matters.
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