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  • FIRST POST
    Shelter_Ross
    Struggling to pay your rent? Shelter needs your help!
    • #1
    • 16th May 17, 10:10 AM
    Struggling to pay your rent? Shelter needs your help! 16th May 17 at 10:10 AM
    Hi everyone,

    I work for Shelter – the national housing and homelessness charity. At Shelter we know that there are a huge number of people on low incomes struggling to pay their rent each month, borrowing money to pay their bills or unable to save up to buy a house of their own.
    These people are the backbone of our country. They’re ordinary working people such as bus drivers, cleaners, teaching assistants or shop workers. Currently, they’re working to pay the rent, rather than live.

    That’s why we’re calling on the next Government to build half a million living rent homes which would allow people to live a decent life, not just manage each month.

    If you’re working hard but still struggling, cutting back on essentials each month to pay sky-high rents that keep rising, then we want to hear from you. Your stories will help us tell the next Government that they need to act to provide an alternative to our broken system.
    We’re going to run a story in the media highlighting the struggles people face so are looking for the following people to tell their stories:

    - Single (could be renting in a house share, or in your own place) and not with children
    - Earning up to £22,000 a year (could be working part time, in unstable work or full time)
    - Not claiming benefits or only claiming in-work benefits (e.g. tax credits)

    If you’d be happy to share your story then please do so at the link below.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/support_us/campaigns/share_your_story

    And don’t worry, we won’t pass your details to anyone else without your permission. Everything you tell us is confidential, and we won’t use your name unless you agree to it first.

    Thanks,
    Ross
    Last edited by Shelter_Ross; 22-05-2017 at 10:51 AM.
    Official Organisation Representative
    I’m the official organisation rep for Shelter.

    MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
Page 3
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 9:51 AM
    • 12,099 Posts
    • 10,045 Thanks
    zagfles
    I am really just curious (so don't take it personally), I admit that I will never understand this reliance of benefits but I keep trying.
    If you could pay your rent, and he is your son, why should the state chip in in case of need? Very bizarre, makes me wonder if these reports we have from charities (this was a Shelter thread) and state offices are overwhelmed with no real urgent cases.
    Originally posted by always_sunny
    Why should pimento spay his/her adult son's rent? What next, should children pay their parents' pension?
    • pimento
    • By pimento 17th May 17, 10:01 AM
    • 5,162 Posts
    • 6,715 Thanks
    pimento
    If you could pay your rent, and he is your son, why should the state chip in in case of need? Very bizarre, makes me wonder if these reports we have from charities (this was a Shelter thread) and state offices are overwhelmed with no real urgent cases.
    Originally posted by always_sunny
    First off, I don't rent, I own my home so I don't need to be able to pay my rent.

    When he was at university and having a spot of bother with his rented house (not rent related), I posted here for advice and was told by several posters that as he was 19, I should but out. He was an adult. I was doing him no favours taking over his life.

    Now, all of a sudden, the same judgemental type of people are saying that I should tell him to uproot himself from Scotland and come back to live at home because he's between jobs and needs to sign on for a couple of months. No mention of letting him get on with it. All of a sudden at 25, he's my problem again.

    Really?
    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." -- Red Adair
    • always_sunny
    • By always_sunny 17th May 17, 10:46 AM
    • 3,291 Posts
    • 3,529 Thanks
    always_sunny
    Why should pimento spay his/her adult son's rent? What next, should children pay their parents' pension?
    Originally posted by zagfles
    Why should someone else pay it?
    As I said, I find it really bizarre!

    (FWIW, originally children would pay parents' pensions by contributing... )
    Expat with an EU passport
    • pimento
    • By pimento 17th May 17, 10:50 AM
    • 5,162 Posts
    • 6,715 Thanks
    pimento

    (FWIW, originally children would pay parents' pensions by contributing... )
    Originally posted by always_sunny
    For what it's worth, I pay my son's rent by contributing (to the tune of £1300 a month). Just saying.


    ETA: and when he was working, he was contributing to his own rent. That's how National Insurance works.
    Last edited by pimento; 17-05-2017 at 10:59 AM.
    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." -- Red Adair
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 17th May 17, 11:39 AM
    • 1,497 Posts
    • 4,039 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    My son's degree was Politics. (In case you thought it was Star Trek studies or Media Studies.)
    Originally posted by pimento
    Apparently academic pursuits are for the children of the independently wealthy, working class kids are there to build the houses and fix the toilets of their betters.

    There's nothing wrong with learning a trade, if that's what you want to do, but there's equally nothing wrong with going to university to study something that might not land you a job straightaway if that's what you want to do too. Some people even do both!

    In a wealthy, developed country like this one, education is a right, not a privilege.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 17th May 17, 11:41 AM
    • 1,497 Posts
    • 4,039 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Speaking of propaganda, plenty of people here seem to believe the propaganda than benefits are really low. Till I came along no-one even seemed to question why Pimento's son was getting so little, they just assumed it was what people like him are entitled to, and calling it a "scandal".

    The real scandal is people believing propaganda that benefits really are that low. It ends up with people not questioning it when they get told bulls**t like the OP's son was told, that he'd have to scrounge off family and friends.
    Originally posted by zagfles
    Do you think its telling that we all accepted that figure? We all know there have been cuts but those of us not affected won't know the numbers. 10 years ago I bet all the replies would have been along the lines of "that can't be right, they must have got the amount wrong!"

    I am pleased to hear that the OP's son should be entitled to more help, but disturbed that he was apparently given seriously duff information when making his claim.
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 17th May 17, 12:12 PM
    • 726 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    ThePants999
    When he was at university and having a spot of bother with his rented house (not rent related), I posted here for advice and was told by several posters that as he was 19, I should but out. He was an adult. I was doing him no favours taking over his life.

    Now, all of a sudden, the same judgemental type of people are saying that I should tell him to uproot himself from Scotland and come back to live at home because he's between jobs and needs to sign on for a couple of months. No mention of letting him get on with it. All of a sudden at 25, he's my problem again.

    Really?
    Originally posted by pimento
    Hah, that's brilliant. Forums, eh?
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 1:38 PM
    • 12,099 Posts
    • 10,045 Thanks
    zagfles
    Do you think its telling that we all accepted that figure?
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Yes indeed. People have swallowed the propaganda about the scale of the cuts.
    We all know there have been cuts but those of us not affected won't know the numbers. 10 years ago I bet all the replies would have been along the lines of "that can't be right, they must have got the amount wrong!"
    Which just emphasises the point. In actual fact the numbers haven't changed much - they'll be a bit lower because the LHA rates are now based on the 30th percentile of market rents rather than 50th, but to not even question how the total was so low is just a sign of how people have swallowed the endless propaganda of the "war on sick, disabled and unemployed" etc.
    I am pleased to hear that the OP's son should be entitled to more help, but disturbed that he was apparently given seriously duff information when making his claim.
    Indeed. Maybe even benefits staff themselves have been affected by the propaganda?
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 1:48 PM
    • 12,099 Posts
    • 10,045 Thanks
    zagfles
    Apparently academic pursuits are for the children of the independently wealthy, working class kids are there to build the houses and fix the toilets of their betters.

    There's nothing wrong with learning a trade, if that's what you want to do, but there's equally nothing wrong with going to university to study something that might not land you a job straightaway if that's what you want to do too. Some people even do both!

    In a wealthy, developed country like this one, education is a right, not a privilege.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Oh so we just rely on workers from "poorer" or "less developed" countries to build the houses and fix the toilets do we, as it's far too menial for us in a "wealthy, developed" country?

    Education should indeed be a right, but unless you're a complete idealogical loony there are limits. Should everyone be able to stay in education their entire life funded by the taxpayer learning something of little use to anyone else? Or should there be limits? Should the govt prioritise funding education in subjects which are actually useful to their future job prospects and to the country's future needs?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 17th May 17, 2:04 PM
    • 1,497 Posts
    • 4,039 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Oh so we just rely on workers from "poorer" or "less developed" countries to build the houses and fix the toilets do we, as it's far too menial for us in a "wealthy, developed" country?

    Education should indeed be a right, but unless you're a complete idealogical loony there are limits. Should everyone be able to stay in education their entire life funded by the taxpayer learning something of little use to anyone else? Or should there be limits? Should the govt prioritise funding education in subjects which are actually useful to their future job prospects and to the country's future needs?
    Originally posted by zagfles

    Is that what I said at all?

    Education without obvious applications has got us where we are! What state do you think the world would be in if people had only ever studied stuff that had obvious practical use?

    Education/training should be based on that person's ability, desire and interest. If we need to incentivise certain career paths that's fine, but we must never give up on the purely academic side of education or have a culture where only certain kinds of people feel able to take that path.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 2:32 PM
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    zagfles
    Is that what I said at all?
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    It seemed to be. Read the first and last sentence of your PP. You imply that it's not OK that people born into a wealthy family should get more education choices, but that it is OK that people born into a wealthy country should.

    So instead of the UK poor fixing the toilets of the rich, the world poor can fix all our toilets.
    Education without obvious applications has got us where we are! What state do you think the world would be in if people had only ever studied stuff that had obvious practical use?

    Education/training should be based on that person's ability, desire and interest. If we need to incentivise certain career paths that's fine, but we must never give up on the purely academic side of education or have a culture where only certain kinds of people feel able to take that path.
    There's nothing wrong with purely acedemic education - and that often leads to good jobs not because of what is learnt, but because what the ability to learn it shows about the graduate.

    Maths is good example - maths graduates aren't in high demand because loads of employers need people who understand Fermat's last theorem or who can do advanced calculus. Maths is in high demand because the ability to learn it and get a degree shows an ability which is useful in lots of other fields. It's similar with languages, and lots of other subjects.

    Media studies on the other hand does have obvious practical uses - we all use media, we need journalists. Yet graduates who did media studies have worse job prospects than people who did classics.
    Last edited by zagfles; 17-05-2017 at 2:39 PM.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 17th May 17, 2:38 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    It seemed to be. Read the first and last sentence of your PP. You imply that it's not OK that people born into a wealthy family should get more education choices, but that it is OK that people born into a wealthy country should.

    So instead of the UK poor fixing the toilets of the rich, the world poor can fix all our toilets. There's nothing wrong with purely acedemic education - and that often leads to good jobs not because of what is learnt, but because what the ability to learn it shows about the graduate.

    Maths is good example - maths graduates aren't in high demand because loads of employers need people who understand Fermat's last theorem or who can do advanced calculus. Maths is in high demand because the ability to learn it and get a degree shows an ability which is useful in lots of other fields. It's similar with languages, and lots of other subjects.

    Media studies on the other hand does have obvious practical uses - we all use media, we need journalists. Yet graduates who did media studies have worse job prospects than people who did classics.
    Originally posted by zagfles
    I certainly did not mean to imply that at all. I think you took a very different reading from what I said than I would have.

    You're still thinking of education purely in relation to jobs though. That's something that's gone wrong in this country, probably largely due to tuition fees, which make education an investment an individual makes in their own future rather than an investment the country makes in its young people.
    • 2013yearofthehouse
    • By 2013yearofthehouse 17th May 17, 6:15 PM
    • 2,073 Posts
    • 37,064 Thanks
    2013yearofthehouse
    Sorry but I'm struggling to see how a single person, earning £22K, with a reasonable lifestyle, and not expecting the life that you get to enjoy when you earn £40K would find themselves unable to pay their rent.

    I have all the sympathy for hard working people on low income, but £22k for a single person is not horrendous, especially if you are young and can look forward to future progression.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    I agree, £22k is a bit high as a threshold, if you're single without children! As a student I was happily living on £8.5k a year (£6.5k loan/grants & £2k summer earnings) and never once struggled to pay my £400 a month rent, as I made rent (followed by bills and food) my priority! Obviously once in work there are extra costs like council tax, extra clothes, possibly higher commuting costs etc., but for anyone near £22k then rent shouldn't be a problem (unless you are renting somewhere very expensive!).
    Last edited by 2013yearofthehouse; 17-05-2017 at 6:18 PM.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 17th May 17, 6:20 PM
    • 2,656 Posts
    • 3,628 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Well my post was nothing to do with what anyone had written on this forum is was an answer to the OP concerning building more houses. I keep seeing statements about governments building more houses but governments don't build houses builders do so if we don't have enough construction workers we won't be getting anymore houses.

    There is nothing wrong with people educating themselves but media studies, film studies, fashion, ceramics (pots not semi conductors,) performing arts etc used to be available as evening class subjects so there was no need for anyone to study them at university. In fact more people get the opportunity to study these subject if they are evening classes because they can be studied by people who are working. As these subjects don't lead to jobs but are studied for the benefit of the person there is no need for them to be degree subjects because if you are studying something that doesn't lead to a job you don't need to be awarded recognition that you have studied it. So I think that these hobby type subjects should be studied at evening class rather than at university and someone who is studying for their own interest doesn't need to be awarded a degree. I would also open up study to more of the population. You could argue that studying these subjects shouldn't just be available to people who can afford to not work for 3 years to go to university.

    The universities that offer these courses tend to be the ones that don't offer a traditional level of graduate education because the entry requirements are too low for that and the courses tend to be aimed at the kind of student who would not be able to complete a traditional type degree course because it would be too difficult. This means that any subjects currently taught by these universities will be accessible to most of the population if they were taught as evening classes instead. The benefit of this is that people could then work while studying the subject so that they could concentrate on training for a job.

    There are too many universities and not enough colleges that train people in skills. If the 70 or so universities that offer the subjects that could be done at evening class were converted back into the kind of colleges that offered training in subjects that lead to real jobs the people who wanted to study the kind of subjects offered at the universities where the degrees don't lead to a job could still study the subjects at evening class but they would also be able to do study and training during the day to lead to a job.

    The situation where someone mentioned poor people mending toilets amused me. People who mend other people's toilets are not poor. Plumbers are not poor. Plumbing is an extremely well paid job especially at the moment when there is a shortage of people training to be plumbers. It has always been a well paid job. Plumbing is a skilled job. There is more skill needed to do all the trades than to get a degree from the 70 or so universities that offer the kind of degrees that aren't worth anything.
    • itchyfeet123
    • By itchyfeet123 17th May 17, 6:38 PM
    • 376 Posts
    • 422 Thanks
    itchyfeet123
    Maybe even benefits staff themselves have been affected by the propaganda?
    Originally posted by zagfles
    My more cynical view is staff are incentivised to make it as difficult as possible for people to get what they're entitled to.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 17th May 17, 8:48 PM
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    zagfles
    My more cynical view is staff are incentivised to make it as difficult as possible for people to get what they're entitled to.
    Originally posted by itchyfeet123
    In my experience (mainly dealing with tax credits issues) it's more likely to be incompetance. Or bad training. UC is fairly new, most tax credits staff don't seem to understand how they work after 14 years.
    • sammyjammy
    • By sammyjammy 17th May 17, 8:50 PM
    • 4,137 Posts
    • 4,476 Thanks
    sammyjammy
    My more cynical view is staff are incentivised to make it as difficult as possible for people to get what they're entitled to.
    Originally posted by itchyfeet123
    That's not cynical its downright tinfoil hat territory.
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
    • KittenChops
    • By KittenChops 18th May 17, 4:20 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    KittenChops
    but the country is almost bankrupt, we are no longer a power house and can afford to keep people in the level they are at if out of work. Its personal responsibility to save enough for a rainy day and not rely on the state.
    The housing problem is another issue and something which will not get sorted out whatever governments say. Immigration, BTL, single person households, cheap credit all created the problem
    Originally posted by cashbackproblems
    It really isn't, don't believe the propaganda.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    No propaganda im an accountant and see that we borrow 90bn just to pay the interest on the debt

    You obviously want a benefit life
    Originally posted by cashbackproblems
    I could have sworn that this time last year we were all being told how the UK was the 5th or 6th richest economy, but in less than 12 months we're bankrupt. How did that happen so quickly?
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 18th May 17, 7:11 PM
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    • 3,628 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    I could have sworn that this time last year we were all being told how the UK was the 5th or 6th richest economy, but in less than 12 months we're bankrupt. How did that happen so quickly?
    Originally posted by KittenChops
    That 5th or 6th economy statistic also says that India is 7th richest economy so you can decide whether you think this is a misleading statistic or not? If you want a more realistic one try one where GDP per person is included.
    • MSE Andrea
    • By MSE Andrea 22nd May 17, 10:57 AM
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    MSE Andrea
    Hi everyone

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