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  • FIRST POST
    • workingboy
    • By workingboy 15th May 17, 10:16 PM
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    workingboy
    Pregnant Mother issued disciplinary procedures
    • #1
    • 15th May 17, 10:16 PM
    Pregnant Mother issued disciplinary procedures 15th May 17 at 10:16 PM
    Can a Pregnant mother be issued disciplinary procedures when 11 weeks and having time off for 'Morning Sickness' despite medical treatment, by her employer,. Whom have been informed officially for her Maternity leave.
Page 1
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 15th May 17, 10:23 PM
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    TELLIT01
    • #2
    • 15th May 17, 10:23 PM
    • #2
    • 15th May 17, 10:23 PM
    I don't see any reason why pregnancy related problems would be treated differently to any other chronic health problem. As long as the company treats everybody in a consistent way they are probably in the clear.
    If their process states that the disciplinary process kicks in after x number days those charged with implementing the process could find themselves in trouble if they don't abide by the rules.
    Starting the process doesn't mean that disciplinary action will follow.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 15th May 17, 10:24 PM
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    Undervalued
    • #3
    • 15th May 17, 10:24 PM
    • #3
    • 15th May 17, 10:24 PM
    Yes.

    Being pregnant is not a "get out of jail free" card!

    A pregnant woman has certain legal protections regarding employment. However we obviously don't know the rights and wrongs of this particular case and "being issued with proceedings" is not the same being "guilty" and subject to some sanction.
    • workingboy
    • By workingboy 15th May 17, 10:30 PM
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    workingboy
    • #4
    • 15th May 17, 10:30 PM
    • #4
    • 15th May 17, 10:30 PM
    Basically she had 2 days off from work for her severe bout of morning sickness.
    • GarthThomas
    • By GarthThomas 15th May 17, 10:42 PM
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    GarthThomas
    • #5
    • 15th May 17, 10:42 PM
    • #5
    • 15th May 17, 10:42 PM
    Only two days off in the year, or a history of days off previously, then two days off for this?

    It'd be a harsh system that kicked off disciplinary proceedings after only two days off.
    • Leo2020
    • By Leo2020 16th May 17, 7:27 AM
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    Leo2020
    • #6
    • 16th May 17, 7:27 AM
    • #6
    • 16th May 17, 7:27 AM
    https://www.gov.uk/working-when-pregnant-your-rights

    I'm not an employment expert but I am wondering if applying the same rules to a pregnant woman as a man/women who is pregnant is unfair. With pregnancy does come health related problems. I'm sure I have heard that you can't be disciplined for pregnancy related illnesses.

    Just found this: https://www.maternityaction.org.uk/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/pregnant/sickness-during-pregnancy-and-maternity-leave/

    "If you are not well during your pregnancy, you should follow your employer’s normal sickness reporting procedures. Your employer must record any pregnancy-related sickness absence separately from other sick leave, so that pregnancy-related sickness absence is not used as a reason for disciplinary action, dismissal or redundancy."
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 16th May 17, 8:14 AM
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    TELLIT01
    • #7
    • 16th May 17, 8:14 AM
    • #7
    • 16th May 17, 8:14 AM
    If she has only had 2 days sick, it's more likely that the 'disciplinary procedure' is the standard 'return to work interview' which was conducted where I worked after any sickness absence. As 2 days would be self-certified, the employer needs to know the background and investigate the reason for the absence so that it can either be added to the annual sickness count, or disregarded as defined above.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 16th May 17, 8:56 AM
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    • #8
    • 16th May 17, 8:56 AM
    • #8
    • 16th May 17, 8:56 AM
    If she has only had 2 days sick, it's more likely that the 'disciplinary procedure' is the standard 'return to work interview' which was conducted where I worked after any sickness absence. As 2 days would be self-certified, the employer needs to know the background and investigate the reason for the absence so that it can either be added to the annual sickness count, or disregarded as defined above.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Quite.

    An employer is quite entitled to look closely at short periods of self certified sickness. It may well be perfectly genuine or, pregnancy or not, a bit of unofficial holiday! Sadly it happens all too often, particularly on Mondays and Fridays, and ultimately causes grief for the genuinely sick.

    Investigating is not the same thing as imposing a disciplinary sanction.
    • workingboy
    • By workingboy 16th May 17, 9:46 AM
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    workingboy
    • #9
    • 16th May 17, 9:46 AM
    • #9
    • 16th May 17, 9:46 AM
    Thanks all,

    Found after sunrise this morning, its because she did not follow Protocol.
    Informing her employer of sickness on the second day where the employer did not realise she was absent till lunchtime.

    thanks
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 16th May 17, 11:48 AM
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    TELLIT01
    Thanks all,

    Found after sunrise this morning, its because she did not follow Protocol.
    Informing her employer of sickness on the second day where the employer did not realise she was absent till lunchtime.

    thanks
    Originally posted by workingboy
    Glad it's been resolved. Timely reminder that the rules apply equally to all parties involved.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 16th May 17, 12:01 PM
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    Undervalued
    Thanks all,

    Found after sunrise this morning, its because she did not follow Protocol.
    Informing her employer of sickness on the second day where the employer did not realise she was absent till lunchtime.

    thanks
    Originally posted by workingboy
    OK. Being pregnant certainly doesn't absolve her from following the firm's protocol!
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th May 17, 10:00 PM
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    xapprenticex
    Pregnant Mother @ 11 weeks must follow protocol too.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 17th May 17, 10:02 AM
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    MEM62
    Can a Pregnant mother be issued disciplinary procedures when 11 weeks and having time off for 'Morning Sickness' despite medical treatment, by her employer,. Whom have been informed officially for her Maternity leave.
    Originally posted by workingboy
    Being pregnant does not exclude you from disciplinary procedures or any other of the conditions relating to your employment.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 17th May 17, 10:23 AM
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    Takeaway_Addict
    Being pregnant does not exclude you from disciplinary procedures or any other of the conditions relating to your employment.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    It does when the disciplinary is related to sickness due to pregnancy.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 17th May 17, 10:48 AM
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    Undervalued
    It does when the disciplinary is related to sickness due to pregnancy.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    Not quite.

    They can certainly investigate whether the sickness is actually related to the pregnancy or, come to that, whether she is genuinely sick at all.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 17th May 17, 4:35 PM
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    MEM62
    It does when the disciplinary is related to sickness due to pregnancy.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    Nope! The procedures still apply. Pregnancy does not get you an exclusion.

    There are many areas where an employer must consider pregnancy and act appropriately. Two examples being that they should do a risk assessment to ensure that any risks associated with the individual's job function are managed and also give due consideration to the requirement for increased doctor's and hospital visits etc. However, the condition does not remove the employee from their obligation to comply with the company's rules and regulations - including disciplinary procedures.
    • pioneer22
    • By pioneer22 17th May 17, 6:22 PM
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    pioneer22
    Nope! The procedures still apply. Pregnancy does not get you an exclusion.

    There are many areas where an employer must consider pregnancy and act appropriately. Two examples being that they should do a risk assessment to ensure that any risks associated with the individual's job function are managed and also give due consideration to the requirement for increased doctor's and hospital visits etc. However, the condition does not remove the employee from their obligation to comply with the company's rules and regulations - including disciplinary procedures.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    Only if it isn't directly related to being pregnant, however, that could be quick difficult to prove. A GP would nearly always write a sick note for a pregnant woman (I would)

    I remember being involved in an OH investigation where a pregnant employee essentially got into a huge shouty argument with another member of staff highly unprofessional. We didn't end up taking it further as we couldn't prove it wasn't related to the pregnancy.

    An employer does have a duty of care towards a pregnant employee.

    Some of these places people have described sound like gulags or victorian workhouses.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 17th May 17, 6:56 PM
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    Takeaway_Addict
    Nope! The procedures still apply. Pregnancy does not get you an exclusion.

    There are many areas where an employer must consider pregnancy and act appropriately. Two examples being that they should do a risk assessment to ensure that any risks associated with the individual's job function are managed and also give due consideration to the requirement for increased doctor's and hospital visits etc. However, the condition does not remove the employee from their obligation to comply with the company's rules and regulations - including disciplinary procedures.
    Originally posted by MEM62
    It does if the sickness is directly related to pregnancy, as has been put you can still investigate it but if found to be true you couldn't discpline based on this
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 17th May 17, 6:58 PM
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    xapprenticex
    Time to agree to disagree.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 18th May 17, 10:50 AM
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    MEM62
    Only if it isn't directly related to being pregnant, however, that could be quick difficult to prove. A GP would nearly always write a sick note for a pregnant woman (I would)

    I remember being involved in an OH investigation where a pregnant employee essentially got into a huge shouty argument with another member of staff highly unprofessional. We didn't end up taking it further as we couldn't prove it wasn't related to the pregnancy.

    An employer does have a duty of care towards a pregnant employee.

    Some of these places people have described sound like gulags or victorian workhouses.
    Originally posted by pioneer22
    It does if the sickness is directly related to pregnancy, as has been put you can still investigate it but if found to be true you couldn't discpline based on this
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict
    In both your scenarios the individual has not been excluded from the procedure. You have both given examples where the individual still goes through the procedure. As you have both highlighted the outcome must take into account the pregnancy which is absolutely right but the individual is still subject to the company's normal rules and procedures.
    Last edited by MEM62; 18-05-2017 at 2:10 PM.
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