Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • goodwithsaving
    • By goodwithsaving 15th May 17, 7:38 PM
    • 618Posts
    • 931Thanks
    goodwithsaving
    Diesel?
    • #1
    • 15th May 17, 7:38 PM
    Diesel? 15th May 17 at 7:38 PM
    Apologies for another car question!
    Would any of you buy a diesel at the moment? A few years old....
    Every time you borrow money, you’re robbing your future self. –Nathan W. Morris
Page 2
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th May 17, 10:09 AM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy
    Giving councils extra cash isn't entirely a bad thing to do.
    Originally posted by reeac
    True, however giving them the autonomy to do it as they please is.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • iolanthe07
    • By iolanthe07 16th May 17, 11:02 AM
    • 4,861 Posts
    • 4,595 Thanks
    iolanthe07
    The government could put a hefty levy on diesel fuel with a rebate for commercial vehicles, much like they do with buses and coaches at the moment. Or they could allow commercial operators to buy red diesel, like farmers (and fishemen?)
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th May 17, 12:42 PM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy
    The government could put a hefty levy on diesel fuel with a rebate for commercial vehicles, much like they do with buses and coaches at the moment. Or they could allow commercial operators to buy red diesel, like farmers (and fishemen?)
    Originally posted by iolanthe07
    More hassle than its worth and almost unimplementable.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • andrewf75
    • By andrewf75 16th May 17, 12:53 PM
    • 7,320 Posts
    • 12,131 Thanks
    andrewf75
    I wouldn’t buy a diesel now. They are on the way out, probably very gradually, but still.... unlike the very poor analogy of bread, there is a very simple alternative so unless you do seriously huge mileage buy a petrol!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th May 17, 1:14 PM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy
    I wouldn’t buy a diesel now. They are on the way out, probably very gradually, but still.... unlike the very poor analogy of bread, there is a very simple alternative so unless you do seriously huge mileage buy a petrol!
    Originally posted by andrewf75
    All fossil fuel burning vehicles are on their way out. Its only a matter of time. However as long as there are petrol cars there will be diesel cars too.

    Diesel should never have been the default choice for fuel type that it had become and if we're seeing that rebalance back to those who get a financial advantage from running on it then great.

    If you're doing 10-12,000 miles a year then you should never have been driving a diesel in the first place.

    Thats evidence of re-education, not that diesel is "on its way out".
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Stoke
    • By Stoke 16th May 17, 1:16 PM
    • 1,838 Posts
    • 649 Thanks
    Stoke
    I think diesel cars will drop in prevalence, however that tide shift will continue and petrols will be the next to go, as we move towards hybrids and electric cars.

    Diesel will be with us for a long time yet, as will petrol but its dominance in the marketplace will drop. I dont think thats a bad thing anyway. Diesel became the default choice for new car buyers which was wrong TBH.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    But buying a newer diesel will involve significant investment still and it's quite clear that the next 18 months are going to be rocky for diesels.

    As I said, no problem with chucking £700 away on a diesel 03 Fiesta or something with £30 tax. Sure, you can't take it into London, but who the heck wants to drive to London anyway? Spending 3k-4k on a diesel right now is very risky in my opinion.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 16th May 17, 1:34 PM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy

    But buying a newer diesel will involve significant investment still and it's quite clear that the next 18 months are going to be rocky for diesels.
    Originally posted by Stoke
    Who says?
    • Any proposed city charges are around old heavy polluting diesel AND petrol variants.
    • Changes to road tax have never (successfully) been retrospective and would cause a political backlash if they were.
    • Fuel charges cant increase that much as it impacts transport and haulage.

    The news papers are trying to drum up a story. That and car finance seems to be their two targets at the minute.


    As I said, no problem with chucking £700 away on a diesel 03 Fiesta or something with £30 tax. Sure, you can't take it into London, but who the heck wants to drive to London anyway? Spending 3k-4k on a diesel right now is very risky in my opinion.
    Originally posted by Stoke
    And hows it risky?

    Whos going to force you to sell it? Even if it drops by 50% in value in a year (which it wont) why would you have to sell it? Just drive on at it.

    I've just bought a £15K+ Passat TDI. Not one !!!! will i give if the !!! drops out of the diesel car resale market as i have no plans to sell it any time soon - and i will still be getting 60mpg and paying £20 pa road tax.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 16th May 17, 1:50 PM
    • 1,370 Posts
    • 904 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Newspapers are basing their figure on people valuing their cars on online sites like Autotrader and Whatcar. I did the check on those the other day as am still weighing up my options. As someone who does 18 - 22k a year, I'm looking at buying another diesel, but the online tools don't check what you're looking to buy - though Whatcar did call me saying it was a 'courtesy call'. More likely they were wanting me to use them to buy financial products or take out a subscritpion, but wouldn't be drawn on it.

    It seems to me, therefore that the papers are distorting things to chase a good story, which means at part exchange time salesmen will use it as an excuse to give less for a diesel even if selling you a diesel. SO will take money off what they give you, but not off what they are selling. A bit like the mileage only being an issue when they are buying not when you are.
    • jamiehelsinki
    • By jamiehelsinki 16th May 17, 8:57 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    jamiehelsinki
    Nick Clegg was talking about this on the Wright Show this morning, I don't usually like him but he gave a good point of view on it.

    He said if the government directly tax the diesel car owners (voters) it would do them a lot of harm, they are more likely to pass the problem onto local councils and give them powers to charge diesel drivers to drive in certain areas.

    Basically a diesel congestion charge fee in city centres would do less harm to the government than putting diesel prices up or increasing the vehicle excise duty charges etc.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 16th May 17, 9:02 PM
    • 1,154 Posts
    • 798 Thanks
    Tarambor
    I think diesel cars will drop in prevalence, however that tide shift will continue and petrols will be the next to go, as we move towards hybrids and electric cars.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    This is my view. And it is because of that that I'm going to keep my current diesel Mondeo until it expires because I reckon in the next half decade which it should easily manage given it is currently only 7 years old with 120k, electric cars are going to improve charge times, range and simultaneously they'll reduce in price and the fast charging network grow sufficiently to make them suitable for almost all the journeys I do.
    • calog
    • By calog 17th May 17, 12:25 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    calog
    I share concerns of OP on this, later down the line diesels will be penalised.

    Diesel car sales are slumping, new car sales figures show this.

    As with everything else we will have to find ways of transporting goods more efficiently or swallow additional costs.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th May 17, 3:05 PM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy
    I share concerns of OP on this, later down the line diesels will be penalised.

    Diesel car sales are slumping, new car sales figures show this.

    As with everything else we will have to find ways of transporting goods more efficiently or swallow additional costs.
    Originally posted by calog
    Where are you getting the impression its a slump?

    Diesel car sales have peaked - and rightly so. Far too many people saw them as the default choice and they arent. There are now very viable economical petrol variants now in existence that have become more popular If all that means diesels return (rightly) to the realms of high mileage drivers then thats absolutely fine with me.

    We'll see sales decline gradually, but its by no means a "slump"
    Last edited by motorguy; 17-05-2017 at 3:07 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • calog
    • By calog 17th May 17, 3:53 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    calog
    Maybe slumping was too strong a description but they are definitely falling, recent media stories state this repeatedly since other stories of increasing pollution in city centres.
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 17th May 17, 4:07 PM
    • 1,734 Posts
    • 2,530 Thanks
    Robisere
    Have to say upfront that I have been a Motability driver for the last 22 years (and very grateful for it). In that time I have driven petrol and diesels, the last and current cars being diesel. I served in the Army for 12 years and was a workshop foreman for many years before injury and disability, so I have driven my share of differently-powered vehicles. The diesels I drove in the past were a very different beast to those of the present. I remember carrying out the first diesel emissions tests for MOT certification: many of the (then) popular diesel engines failed, especially some of the older Leyland diesels.

    Details here of those diesel engine cars which pass the Euro 6 limits:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/37-popular-diesel-cars-sail-7808803

    This is how Auto Express sees it:
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/90816/euro-6-emissions-standards-what-do-they-mean-for-you

    Basically, engines fitted after September 2009 must pass Euro5a tests. Engines after September 2014 must pass Euro6 diesel tests. Euro 6 is a dramatically low NOX content of 80 mg/km.

    As to the OP's question: where you live, how many miles a week you drive and the environment you regularly drive through, should have a bearing on whether you buy a petrol or diesel car. Also look at the lists linked above to decide upon the year of a diesel engined car.

    For example: I live in rural Lincolnshire. My nearest large supermarket is a 44 mile round trip, nearest city is Lincoln, a 60 mile round trip. I regularly drive anything up to 250 miles a week, mostly through villages and small towns. A diesel is ideal for me. However, if I lived in a large urban area and covered less miles per week, I would have a petrol engined car.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th May 17, 4:10 PM
    • 10,014 Posts
    • 7,000 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Diesel car sales are slumping, new car sales figures show this
    Originally posted by calog
    Then please share these "figures" to back up this claim of yours.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th May 17, 4:15 PM
    • 10,014 Posts
    • 7,000 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Maybe slumping was too strong a description but they are definitely falling, recent media stories state this repeatedly since other stories of increasing pollution in city centres.
    Originally posted by calog
    According to the SMMT sales of diesel cars hit a new record in March this year although there has been a slow down in all sales since the new VED rules came out on April 1.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th May 17, 4:16 PM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy
    Maybe slumping was too strong a description but they are definitely falling, recent media stories state this repeatedly since other stories of increasing pollution in city centres.
    Originally posted by calog
    The media are trying to whip up a story.

    They've a big headline this month about how theres been a massive drop in new car sales in April, and last month they had a big headline about the massive increase in PCP / PCH agreements for new cars in March and citing this as an example of how car finance was out of control.

    The reality was that new car sales generally were UP in March because people were trying to beat the tax increases, and they are DOWN this month compared to the same month last year because people bought a month early.

    Cars taken on finance was only UP in March because new car sales were UP - it wasnt evidence of some massive trend.

    Where there is a viable alternative to a diesel variant - for example where theres a new super-economical 1.0 litre turbo petrol variant available, then yes people are quite rightly moving to petrols. Thats just the way the market is moving because of advances in the last 5 years in petrol car economy NOT because theres some sort of anti-diesel movement happening among buyers.

    The problem is people may develop an anti diesel stance because of what they read in the papers, NOT because the papers have picked up on and are reporting on an anti diesel stance among people.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th May 17, 4:20 PM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy
    According to the SMMT sales of diesel cars hit a new record in March this year although there has been a slow down in all sales since the new VED rules came out on April 1.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Exactly - but the papers chose to use this piece of information to whip up a story that new car finance had hit a new record high (OBVIOUSLY it did because new car sales were up), and now they're using the same information to say new car diesel sales are DOWN in April.

    So either they've people who are clearly retarded trying to analyse trends, OR they're purposely trying to whip up new scandals.

    They're already talking about a new "car finance scandal" where people were "mis-sold" PCP deals. No doubt they'll support that by wheeling in some gimp on minimum wage whos bought a new BMW and will be wanting to "blame" the dealer for "making them buy it" therefore he feels he should be entitled to com-pen-say-shun.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • andrewf75
    • By andrewf75 18th May 17, 11:04 AM
    • 7,320 Posts
    • 12,131 Thanks
    andrewf75
    Cars taken on finance was only UP in March because new car sales were UP - it wasnt evidence of some massive trend.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    But surely car sales have been strong because of PCP deals not the other way round. Wages are stagnant, people have probably less spare money than ever, but are still buying cars only because of PCP deals, the whole invention of which is to keep people buying cars!
    Like anything (as we moneysavers know) its best for our individual finances to avoid the temptation of buying new stuff all the time, but at the same time it’s essential for the economy that we do!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 18th May 17, 11:15 AM
    • 15,374 Posts
    • 8,776 Thanks
    motorguy

    But surely car sales have been strong because of PCP deals not the other way round.
    Originally posted by andrewf75
    Yes. But thats not what i said. I said that the newspapers were reporting the finance agreements were massively UP in March - and they cited this as an example of how car finance was out of control. Whereas the reality is finance agreements were up because new car sales were up during March because people were buying in advance of the tax changes.

    Those same newspapers now have stats in for sales during April which are down (because people bought in advance of the tax changes in April) but are chosing to interpret that as "diesel sales are DOWN". :rolleyes:

    They're whipping up a story. If they put enough spin on it, people start to believe it and act on it.


    Wages are stagnant, people have probably less spare money than ever, but are still buying cars only because of PCP deals, the whole invention of which is to keep people buying cars!
    Originally posted by andrewf75
    Yes, for many people a PCP or PCH deal is an effective way of wrapping up the depreciation, warranty and often servicing costs into a set monthly payment with they can budget for.

    That is not a problem in itself. The problem is the misuse of that by people overcommitting.


    Like anything (as we moneysavers know) its best for our individual finances to avoid the temptation of buying new stuff all the time, but at the same time it’s essential for the economy that we do!
    Originally posted by andrewf75
    This site is not about not spending money, its about getting the best deal when you do. If people can effectively use a PCP or PCH payment then there is no issue.
    Last edited by motorguy; 18-05-2017 at 11:18 AM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

228Posts Today

1,785Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Shana tova umetuka - a sweet Jewish New Year to all celebrating. I won't be online the rest of t'week, as I take the time to be with family

  • Dear Steve. Please note doing a poll to ask people's opinion does not in itself imply an opinion! https://t.co/UGvWlMURxy

  • Luciana is on the advisory board of @mmhpi (we have MPs from most parties) https://t.co/n99NAxGAAQ

  • Follow Martin