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  • FIRST POST
    • ian-d
    • By ian-d 15th May 17, 2:24 PM
    • 367Posts
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    ian-d
    Alternatives to Vanguard LifeStrategy
    • #1
    • 15th May 17, 2:24 PM
    Alternatives to Vanguard LifeStrategy 15th May 17 at 2:24 PM
    So I've started my SIPP on VLS80, high risk, but it will be contributed to for a good 20 years at least; regularly, so buying high and low.

    I'm going to drip feed approx. £5k into a S&S ISA from my CASH ISA for the next 12-24 months, though I'm unsure if I should just use the same fund option, or whether to explore other alternatives on the basis of the pot being much larger in the short term, but with a view to investing over a lesser period of 15 years.

    Should I be considering other funds? Or looking at VLS60 or even VLS100 instead? Any suggestions?

    (not factoring in a LISA just now, I don't want to tie in more than just a SIPP for now...which is a better option for me as the contributions are via my ltd company)
Page 2
    • Audaxer
    • By Audaxer 18th May 17, 9:31 PM
    • 404 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    Audaxer
    Another good alternative to VLS and L&G is the HSBC Global Strategy range of funds. They are cheap and performed well in comparison to the other two. It has less holdings in the UK which with Brexit some people believe is good? It's just another option for research.
    Originally posted by Sally57
    I like the look of the HSBC Global Strategy Balanced Portfolio:
    https://www.trustnet.com/Factsheets/Factsheet.aspx?fundCode=0GF7N&univ=O
    To me it looks like a good option to have in addition to VLS so as not to have all my eggs in the VLS basket. It also seems to have less exposure to UK Equity than VLS and also includes property.

    I'd be interested to see what others think of this fund.
    • MPN
    • By MPN 19th May 17, 2:38 PM
    • 221 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    MPN
    I like the look of the HSBC Global Strategy Balanced Portfolio:
    https://www.trustnet.com/Factsheets/Factsheet.aspx?fundCode=0GF7N&univ=O
    To me it looks like a good option to have in addition to VLS so as not to have all my eggs in the VLS basket. It also seems to have less exposure to UK Equity than VLS and also includes property.

    I'd be interested to see what others think of this fund.
    Originally posted by Audaxer
    IMHO it is a good option to VLS & L&G mainly because it's asset allocation is different to the other two investment companies and as you said it has less exposure to UK Equity.

    Therefore, because nobody knows what is going to happen post Brexit it seems a good idea to hedge your bets and have 1 fund 25 per cent UK exposure and the other with far less exposure to the UK.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 19th May 17, 3:48 PM
    • 6,690 Posts
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    bowlhead99

    Therefore, because nobody knows what is going to happen post Brexit it seems a good idea to hedge your bets and have 1 fund 25 per cent UK exposure and the other with far less exposure to the UK.
    Originally posted by MPN
    But that's like saying nobody knows what is going to happen post Brexit it seems a good idea to hedge your bets and have one fund 100% UK exposure and the other with far less or nil so you end up with 50% UK.

    Or nobody knows what is going to happen post Brexit so it seems a good idea to hedge your bets with one fund 50% and one far less or nil, so you end up with 25% like the Vanguard product.

    You don't need more than one mixed multi asset fund. They are all trying to do the same sort of job with different approaches. They are all put together by professionals and none of them bill themselves as a fund that needs to be mixed together with another mixed fund to deliver the right overall result.

    So, look into how they allocate their assets and pick one whose strategy you prefer. You don't need to look at a bunch of different ones which you think could all do the job and then buy all of them.
    • Audaxer
    • By Audaxer 19th May 17, 4:22 PM
    • 404 Posts
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    Audaxer
    But that's like saying nobody knows what is going to happen post Brexit it seems a good idea to hedge your bets and have one fund 100% UK exposure and the other with far less or nil so you end up with 50% UK.

    Or nobody knows what is going to happen post Brexit so it seems a good idea to hedge your bets with one fund 50% and one far less or nil, so you end up with 25% like the Vanguard product.

    You don't need more than one mixed multi asset fund. They are all trying to do the same sort of job with different approaches. They are all put together by professionals and none of them bill themselves as a fund that needs to be mixed together with another mixed fund to deliver the right overall result.

    So, look into how they allocate their assets and pick one whose strategy you prefer. You don't need to look at a bunch of different ones which you think could all do the job and then buy all of them.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    But is there anything wrong with splitting your investment between the 2 multi asset funds, as I just don't like the thought of putting everything into VLS? If they both produce similar results, I appreciate you may not get any benefit, but I don't think you are losing out either, or are you?

    The HSBC Global Strategy fund also includes a bit of property and some other different asset classes I see from comparing the two funds on Trustnet, so I thought that would help with diversification?
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 19th May 17, 5:01 PM
    • 1,015 Posts
    • 772 Thanks
    TheShape
    But is there anything wrong with splitting your investment between the 2 multi asset funds, as I just don't like the thought of putting everything into VLS? If they both produce similar results, I appreciate you may not get any benefit, but I don't think you are losing out either, or are you?

    The HSBC Global Strategy fund also includes a bit of property and some other different asset classes I see from comparing the two funds on Trustnet, so I thought that would help with diversification?
    Originally posted by Audaxer
    Right, I'm going to confess to having three of the mixed multi asset funds in my S&S ISA.

    The advice here when I was deciding what to invest in was to pick the fund that was right for me. I looked at VLS100, Blackrock Consensus 100 and HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic. Deciding between them wasn't easy, and rather than think endlessly about whether I should have more or less UK exposure, more Japan, less japan etc etc (I'm not experienced enough to be confident that I've the 'best decision') I decided to invest in all three. I'm happy with that decision. I can't see any particular downside over having picked just one of them. My monthly investment is just split three ways and over time I should get to see how their various allocations affect their performance.
    • AlanP
    • By AlanP 19th May 17, 5:30 PM
    • 890 Posts
    • 609 Thanks
    AlanP
    Right, I'm going to confess to having three of the mixed multi asset funds in my S&S ISA.

    The advice here when I was deciding what to invest in was to pick the fund that was right for me. I looked at VLS100, Blackrock Consensus 100 and HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic. Deciding between them wasn't easy, and rather than think endlessly about whether I should have more or less UK exposure, more Japan, less japan etc etc (I'm not experienced enough to be confident that I've the 'best decision') I decided to invest in all three. I'm happy with that decision. I can't see any particular downside over having picked just one of them. My monthly investment is just split three ways and over time I should get to see how their various allocations affect their performance.
    Originally posted by TheShape

    Seems fine to me if that's what you want.

    I agree with Bowlhead though - Saying mix 2 or 3 of them because of something specific (like not knowing how Brexit will work out) and trying to reduce UK exposure by adding something that has less UK in it is illogical to me. If you think Brexit will work out badly for UK plc you might do that, but if you aren't sure then why guess on Worse when it could be Better in the end?
    • StellaN
    • By StellaN 19th May 17, 8:02 PM
    • 178 Posts
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    StellaN
    Seems fine to me if that's what you want.

    I agree with Bowlhead though - Saying mix 2 or 3 of them because of something specific (like not knowing how Brexit will work out) and trying to reduce UK exposure by adding something that has less UK in it is illogical to me. If you think Brexit will work out badly for UK plc you might do that, but if you aren't sure then why guess on Worse when it could be Better in the end?
    Originally posted by AlanP
    But surely if some posters feel happier with 2 multi asset funds with different asset allocations then that's fine isn't it? I do agree though that 3 is going too far. The VLS and L&G bother have about 25 per cent UK so I personally would choose one of them mixed with the HSBC fund.
    Last edited by StellaN; 20-05-2017 at 6:11 PM. Reason: Spellimg
    • AlanP
    • By AlanP 19th May 17, 9:15 PM
    • 890 Posts
    • 609 Thanks
    AlanP
    But surely if some posters feel happier with 2 multi asset funds with different asset allocations then that's fine isn't it? I do agree though that 3 is going to far. The VLS and L&G bother have about 25 per cent UK so I personally would choose one of them mixed with the HSBC fund.
    Originally posted by StellaN
    That's what I said, or at least that what I meant by:

    "seems fine to me if that's what you want"
    • roxy28
    • By roxy28 20th May 17, 12:32 PM
    • 598 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    roxy28
    I am looking at the HSBC fund on Hargreaves & Landsdown and they leave it out of the wealth 150 sector, so to them its not one of the best funds in that sector.
    Is that bad?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 20th May 17, 12:41 PM
    • 89,460 Posts
    • 54,930 Thanks
    dunstonh
    I am looking at the HSBC fund on Hargreaves & Landsdown and they leave it out of the wealth 150 sector, so to them its not one of the best funds in that sector.
    Is that bad?
    Originally posted by roxy28
    Don't think of that list as a list of quality. It is more marketing. One thing you really need to get used to is that HL do not provide advice. They do not measure quality. They issue tons of marketing and it can be dressed up to appear as advice.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • jamei305
    • By jamei305 20th May 17, 12:44 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 246 Thanks
    jamei305
    Ignore the Wealth 150+, HL do not publish their criteria for inclusion, so it probably includes things like "how much profit will this make for us compared to other funds" and not much else.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 20th May 17, 1:58 PM
    • 854 Posts
    • 427 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    But surely if some posters feel happier with 2 multi asset funds with different asset allocations then that's fine isn't it? I do agree though that 3 is going to far. The VLS and L&G bother have about 25 per cent UK so I personally would choose one of them mixed with the HSBC fund.
    Originally posted by StellaN
    You can use a couple of multi-asset funds if you want to get a particular asset allocation. That might be a equity to bond ratio ie if you want 50/50 you'd have equal amounts of VLS60 and VLS40, or to include/overweight a particular sector or geographical region.
    • StellaN
    • By StellaN 20th May 17, 6:07 PM
    • 178 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    StellaN
    You can use a couple of multi-asset funds if you want to get a particular asset allocation. That might be a equity to bond ratio ie if you want 50/50 you'd have equal amounts of VLS60 and VLS40, or to include/overweight a particular sector or geographical region.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    The OP wanted alternatives to VLS and that's why we are discussing the various other options including the L&G and HSBC funds.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 20th May 17, 7:05 PM
    • 6,690 Posts
    • 11,883 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    The OP wanted alternatives to VLS and that's why we are discussing the various other options including the L&G and HSBC funds.
    Originally posted by StellaN
    His post wasn't contradicting you, it was agreeing with your first sentence.
    • roxy28
    • By roxy28 21st May 17, 11:59 AM
    • 598 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    roxy28
    Don't think of that list as a list of quality. It is more marketing. One thing you really need to get used to is that HL do not provide advice. They do not measure quality. They issue tons of marketing and it can be dressed up to appear as advice.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Ignore the Wealth 150+, HL do not publish their criteria for inclusion, so it probably includes things like "how much profit will this make for us compared to other funds" and not much else.
    Originally posted by jamei305
    Thanks for that.
    • ian-d
    • By ian-d 5th Jun 17, 4:22 PM
    • 367 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    ian-d
    Rather than beginning another thread. Can I ask if someone would just rationale whether adding global developed small caps from Vanguard is a nice compliment to VLS80 for the purposes of diversifying a little; or would the gains/losses largely mirror what I already have? I had hoped for one that covers both small and medium caps, but need to remind myself if VLS already includes mediums?
    • BLB53
    • By BLB53 5th Jun 17, 4:41 PM
    • 1,106 Posts
    • 890 Thanks
    BLB53
    Another good alternative to VLS and L&G is the HSBC Global Strategy range of funds. They are cheap and performed well in comparison to the other two. It has less holdings in the UK which with Brexit some people believe is good? It's just another option for research.
    Vanguard LS and the HSBC fund recently compared on diy investor
    http://diyinvestoruk.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/a-look-at-hsbc-global-strategy-fund.html
    The HSBC fund holds more property and corporate bonds but the returns are very closely matched. Worth considering imho.
    If you choose index funds you can never outperform the market.
    If you choose managed funds there's a high probability you will underperform index funds.
    • Linton
    • By Linton 5th Jun 17, 6:55 PM
    • 8,182 Posts
    • 8,044 Thanks
    Linton
    Rather than beginning another thread. Can I ask if someone would just rationale whether adding global developed small caps from Vanguard is a nice compliment to VLS80 for the purposes of diversifying a little; or would the gains/losses largely mirror what I already have? I had hoped for one that covers both small and medium caps, but need to remind myself if VLS already includes mediums?
    Originally posted by ian-d
    According to Morningstar, VLS100 is 81% Large caps, 14% Midcap, 3% Smallcap leaving 1% rounding error. So decide on your desired allocation, do a bit of arithmetic and you should know what to buy.

    Apart from the US where the difference in returns is smaller than elsewhere, a midcap/smallcap holding should provide diversification and return benefits, in my view. If your pot is large enough, to avoid excess US it may be worth buying UK, Europe, and Japanese small cap funds.
    • ian-d
    • By ian-d 5th Jun 17, 7:07 PM
    • 367 Posts
    • 87 Thanks
    ian-d
    According to Morningstar, VLS100 is 81% Large caps, 14% Midcap, 3% Smallcap leaving 1% rounding error. So decide on your desired allocation, do a bit of arithmetic and you should know what to buy.

    Apart from the US where the difference in returns is smaller than elsewhere, a midcap/smallcap holding should provide diversification and return benefits, in my view. If your pot is large enough, to avoid excess US it may be worth buying UK, Europe, and Japanese small cap funds.
    Originally posted by Linton
    Yes, VLS80 has the same split of large, medium and small; thanks for that, knew I'd seen it somewhere. That might actually suit, as I was considering 10% focused on small caps which would take it to a similar level as medium caps.
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