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  • FIRST POST
    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 14th May 17, 1:08 AM
    • 12Posts
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    Jan808
    UK Parking Patrol Office
    • #1
    • 14th May 17, 1:08 AM
    UK Parking Patrol Office 14th May 17 at 1:08 AM
    Hi all

    A driver received a ticket yesterday but the issue with the ticket is it says the vehicle was parked on 2 streets "Bugle and Hewitt Street" this was in machester. Is this a reasonable ground to appeal?

    The other thing is I have checked if they are a member of the BPA (which their sign clearly states) and IPC and they are not. Are they a legitimate parking firm?

    Any help will be appreciated.

    Thank you
    Last edited by Jan808; 14-05-2017 at 10:16 AM.
Page 2
    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 30th May 17, 8:09 PM
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    Jan808
    There is no mention on the ticket the keeper is liable for the charge.

    the ticket does state "the driver is liable for this charge"
    Last edited by Jan808; 30-05-2017 at 10:15 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th May 17, 11:00 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    OK so the registered keeper can't be held liable then, that's good, don't go saying who was driving! As IamEmanresu observed, this is byelaws land:

    If you look at the map overlay of the location, there are two parts to Bugle Street. The first where the OP parked is north of Hewitt Street and is private. The part south of Hewitt Street is highway. So what makes the two parts different.

    Seems that [north] Bugle Street is Railway property and may be subject to byelaws.
    So only a Train Operator can issue a real 'penalty'. Is this a PENALTY CHARGE or a PARKING CHARGE from UKPPO?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 1st Jun 17, 6:24 PM
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    Jan808
    This is a "parking charge notice"

    Should the person follow the newbie sticky thread and make an appeal to IPC now?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jun 17, 6:27 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Of course, as already said. Then ignore them (no IAS) as the NEWBIES thread says.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 1st Jun 17, 6:34 PM
    • 16,497 Posts
    • 20,660 Thanks
    Redx
    some good explanations about railway land and bylaws in here

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5656961&page=5

    especially read post #88 by a solicitor
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 1st Jun 17, 6:58 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    Jan808
    Hi sorry for this oversight does the below hold the vehicle keeper liable?

    "Failure tp provide payment of the full amount within 28 days may result in further costs and the vehicle keeper details being requested from the DVLA to enforce this notice"
    • Redx
    • By Redx 1st Jun 17, 7:02 PM
    • 16,497 Posts
    • 20,660 Thanks
    Redx
    a keeper is never liable for anything on railway land , as POFA20123 does not apply , which is why a private pcn cannot be issued under the bylaws

    so the PPC has no authority to issue a private parking charge notice on railway land , even though they try it on

    UKPPO try it on at NEWCASTLE AIRPORT , even though the same applies
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,091 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi sorry for this oversight does the below hold the vehicle keeper liable?

    "Failure tp provide payment of the full amount within 28 days may result in further costs and the vehicle keeper details being requested from the DVLA to enforce this notice"
    Originally posted by Jan808
    No, that's not the wording from paragraph 9(2)f of Schedule 4 (you can check for yourself, the Act/Schedule is easy to read and it's linked in post #1 of the NEWBIES thread, for those who want to dig a bit deeper into the law.

    Either way, on byelaws land, it's not possible to hold a keeper liable unless the byelaws say so, and even then a third party (non-landowner) can't enforce under byelaws.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 1st Jun 17, 10:42 PM
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    Jan808
    As the Driver is liable for the charge, is the registered keep in any anyway obligated to disclose who the driver was?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 1st Jun 17, 10:58 PM
    • 16,497 Posts
    • 20,660 Thanks
    Redx
    no , definitely not
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jun 17, 11:19 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,091 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No, as confirmed by Parliament when the POFA Bill was being heard (yes, we remember that far back).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 5th Jun 17, 6:15 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jan808
    The driver has said his appeal was rejected but what annoyed me is despite the ticket stating the driver is liable for the ticket they can purse the registered keeper

    "Please be advised that a new Law from 1st October 2012 (part of the Protection of Freedoms Act) changed liability for parking on private land from the driver of the vehicle to the vehicle’s registered keeper, unless the keeper clearly identifies who was driving the car at the time."

    Is there anyway of finding out if the land is under any byelaws?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 5th Jun 17, 6:20 PM
    • 2,092 Posts
    • 2,499 Thanks
    waamo
    Are they really claiming POFA applies?
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jun 17, 8:19 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,091 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Is there anyway of finding out if the land is under any byelaws?
    Google the byelaws you think might apply and look at the map.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 12th Jun 17, 6:59 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jan808
    Hi

    I am looking at the Byelaws at the moment and stumbled on the below

    authorised person

    ” means:
    (i) a person acting in the course of his duties who:
    (a) is an employee or agent of an Operator, or
    (b) any other person authorised by an Operator, or
    (ii) any constable, acting in the execution of his duties upon or in connection with the railway;

    Does UKPPO come under any of these definitions above (a) or (b)?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Jun 17, 7:06 PM
    • 1,687 Posts
    • 3,086 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Does UKPPO come under any of these definitions above (a) or (b)?
    They may claim to be an agent but they cannot do anything other than beg.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Jan808
    • By Jan808 12th Jun 17, 7:29 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jan808
    Hi Just want some input on the below, point 2 states a category of person, I was thinking more in line with disabled parking spaces, will that also include permit holders also?

    No person shall enter or remain on any part of the railway where there is
    a notice:
    (i) prohibiting access; or
    (ii) indicating that it is reserved or provided for a specified category of person only, except where he belongs to that specified category.

    Any input will be appreciated.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 12th Jun 17, 7:55 PM
    • 2,092 Posts
    • 2,499 Thanks
    waamo
    You are way overthinking all this. Just ignore them unless you get real court papers.
    This space for hire.
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