Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • leeboy105
    • By leeboy105 13th May 17, 3:03 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    leeboy105
    Bike repair dispute and advice
    • #1
    • 13th May 17, 3:03 PM
    Bike repair dispute and advice 13th May 17 at 3:03 PM
    My sister purchased a secondhand hybrid and D lock for £155 from a bike recycling centre and workshop on 19th November 2016. The bikes are fully serviced and have a 3 month guarantee. She used it for commuting, so it would cover about 10 miles per day on average. Bike seemed in good condition when it was purchased. Bike was stored in a shed at home and a bike shed at work so was kept dry and stored properly.

    She left the country on 21st February 2017, so the bike was in proper use for about 3 months. After this, I used it occasionally on weekends for short journeys.

    Fast forward to Tuesday 2nd May 2017, when I started to us it for commuting. The first day was fine, but on the journey home on Wednesday 3rd May, I noticed some grinding/scraping noises from the back wheel. I used it on the Thursday and Friday and then took it to Go Outdoors to see if they could fix it.

    They called me to say it wasn't economically viable to fix it as the back tyre and brake pads needed replacing. The bearings in the hub were pitted and he said it was completely dry so the rear wheel needed replacing. He also said the chain was stretched and worn, which was affecting the cassette.

    I took it back to where the bike was purchased on 12th May 2017. He kept insisting it was out of guarantee so they had no obligation to do anything. I stated that less than 6 months had elapsed since the bike was purchased and that it had only really been used for just over 3 months. I questioned if it was reasonable for a back tyre to only last for such a short period of time. He stated although the bikes are serviced, the hub of the back tyre may not have been inspected. Anyway, he said he would have a look at it, but would make no promises.

    He called me later that day to say that there was considerable wear on the brake pads and that the chain was worn. He stated this was evidence the bike was used considerably. I queried what the definition of 'considerable usage' was as I knew it wasn't used that much. They offered to replace the back tyre and waive the labour costs. Therefore I would have to pay £32 for the replacement tyre. I said I would get back to him, so they have the bike at the moment.

    Should I just pay the £32 and be done with them? Is there anything I can do and is there any recourse regarding the guarantee? Based on what I've said about the usage, should I expect the rear tyre to last longer?
Page 2
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 17th May 17, 8:02 PM
    • 1,612 Posts
    • 2,058 Thanks
    unforeseen
    Just to clarify a point. YOU have nothing to do with the seller at all. Your sister bought it , so any contract is with her not you. I am surprised that the seller even talked to you about it as he didn't need to.
    • leeboy105
    • By leeboy105 17th May 17, 10:32 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    leeboy105
    You're constantly ignoring the fact that you don't know how much it's been used. If it had been a brand new bike you'd be able to make an argument, but on a second hand bike of unknown provenance you have a much weaker case.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    I'm aware of this, but they seem a reputable bike workshop and they marketed it on Twitter as being in excellent condition, which would raise my expectations. Additionally they are a not for profit social enterprise, so they should have a better balance between profit and bike quality.
    • macman
    • By macman 18th May 17, 12:12 PM
    • 41,125 Posts
    • 16,870 Thanks
    macman
    A nor for profit organisation is likely to be receiving donated bikes in a less than good condition, using enthusiastic but unpaid and partly-trained volunteers, and recycling parts wherever possible. That's why the bikes are cheap.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • GotToChange
    • By GotToChange 18th May 17, 12:45 PM
    • 1,251 Posts
    • 1,313 Thanks
    GotToChange
    In answer to your original question - regardless of the to-ing and fro-ing with regard to expectations of a reconditioned bike - I think that the £32 is good for a replacement wheel; what are you going to do otherwise?? (I mean that kindly)

    I have a friend who helps me with the general routine maintenance - and also have had some repairs/replacement parts done by a local independent - but - when I was dumb enough to drive over my detached front wheel, I ended up at Halford's for a new wheel (and tyre, Kevlar-lined) , which including "fitting", cost £60.00. I think the local man in the village might have cost around the same. Also I am not sure if a rear wheel would be even more because there is more to do around the ?sprockets and chain fitting?

    So, I think best to just get the new wheel on and get ---- on yer bike (as they say)

    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 21st May 17, 8:44 AM
    • 6,067 Posts
    • 4,833 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    A nor for profit organisation is likely to be receiving donated bikes in a less than good condition, using enthusiastic but unpaid and partly-trained volunteers, and recycling parts wherever possible. That's why the bikes are cheap.
    Originally posted by macman
    £150 for a bike that was probably not overly expensive when new isn't particularly cheap. I would expect a £150 used bike which has been serviced to have had the wheel bearing checked and greased.
    Its very likely these bikes will have been donated, there's a similar set up at the entrance of a local tip, but if they are being sold at this price they should be worth it. If it was £30 for something complete and a quick check then thats fair but £150 for a bike which is due to fail because of a missed service item is not fair.

    OP, what exactly did you pay for the bike? You mentioned new tyres and a lock. Did they inflate the price to £150 or were they extra?
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 21-05-2017 at 8:48 AM.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 21st May 17, 1:22 PM
    • 3,748 Posts
    • 3,747 Thanks
    Retrogamer
    Showed that to my local cycle shop of choice and demanded they sell me a Reynolds RZR wheelset for £500.... they laughed!

    Half decent wheels START at £500.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    If you're Elitist, then sure. I find a lot of what i consider "half decent wheels" at less than half that


    Seriously aren't most wheel bearings now sealed?
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton
    Not really. Only on more expensive bicycles but i've worked on mountain bikes that are less than 5 years old and cost 1.6k when new and don't use sealed bearings


    I'm aware of this, but they seem a reputable bike workshop and they marketed it on Twitter as being in excellent condition, which would raise my expectations. Additionally they are a not for profit social enterprise, so they should have a better balance between profit and bike quality.
    Originally posted by leeboy105
    It's a cheap bicycle that was bought used then cycled lots of miles through the winter where all the water and salt remove lubrication and it didn't ever sound like it was serviced, inspected or oiled during that time.

    It's a bit like buying a £700 used car that just had a service, driving it for several thousand miles without then wondering why parts have started to fail because no one checked or topped up the oil / coolant etc.

    When i'm out cycling in the winter my bikes get inspected and a mild service usually every 50 miles or so
    • leeboy105
    • By leeboy105 21st May 17, 2:01 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    leeboy105
    £150 for a bike that was probably not overly expensive when new isn't particularly cheap. I would expect a £150 used bike which has been serviced to have had the wheel bearing checked and greased.
    Its very likely these bikes will have been donated, there's a similar set up at the entrance of a local tip, but if they are being sold at this price they should be worth it. If it was £30 for something complete and a quick check then thats fair but £150 for a bike which is due to fail because of a missed service item is not fair.

    OP, what exactly did you pay for the bike? You mentioned new tyres and a lock. Did they inflate the price to £150 or were they extra?
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    £155 for the bike and a D lock.

    I bought new tyres later myself as the ones on the bike were getting too many penetration punctures.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 21st May 17, 2:48 PM
    • 6,067 Posts
    • 4,833 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    It's a cheap bicycle that was bought used then cycled lots of miles through the winter where all the water and salt remove lubrication and it didn't ever sound like it was serviced, inspected or oiled during that time.
    Originally posted by Retrogamer
    600 miles through a mild winter shouldn't affect the wheel bearings if they were greased.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 21st May 17, 3:32 PM
    • 3,748 Posts
    • 3,747 Thanks
    Retrogamer
    600 miles through a mild winter shouldn't affect the wheel bearings if they were greased.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    Some cheaper wheels have cones and spindles that don't seal out the elements very well.

    I don't know many places that would grease wheel bearings on a basic level service or anywhere that sells low priced used bikes.

    If i was working at such a place and selling used bikes i would merely check if the bearings were smooth to turn the spindle and if there was any free play.

    Long before bearings become so worn that they ruin the wheel you would feel a knocking or clunking from the wheel from the free play in the spindle.
    I suspect the rider has either not noticed that clunking and continued to cycle with loose bearings to the extent it's ruined the wheel, or they ignored the clunking.

    Either way another good reason to frequently check the bike.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 24th May 17, 2:04 PM
    • 2,495 Posts
    • 2,144 Thanks
    Richard53
    Just for comparison, Halfords have three levels of bike service. It's only on the most expensive level (gold) that you get "remove both axles, degrease and inspect bearings". That would cost you £80, or over half the price of the bike.


    Put another way, if you bought a car for £1550, would you expect the seller to do £800 worth of servicing on it before he sold it?


    If I am refurbing a bike, I would always clean and check or renew the wheel bearings, but then I don't charge myself for labour.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 24th May 17, 7:31 PM
    • 6,067 Posts
    • 4,833 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    Assuming this http://www.cycletrainingwales.org.uk/cardiffcycleworkshop/?page_id=20 is where the bike was from the bikes are free to them. If you're an organisation selling a used bike it should be assessed properly. If the final sale price cannot fund the service and repairs it should be scrapped for parts. An £80 Halfords service will include a profit and other overheads. A free bike with an £80 service leaves £70 if sold at a not for profit £150.
    I support organisations like this but if the bikes are below standard they're doing themselves no favours. I suspect bearings aren't regularly checked and greased because generally they don't need it. Keen home cycle mechanics will check regularly but average cyclists often won't often without subsequent problems.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • ssparks2003
    • By ssparks2003 24th May 17, 7:50 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    ssparks2003
    Your sister purchased the bike the shop has no contractual relationship with you; only your sister.
    • Enterprise 1701C
    • By Enterprise 1701C 1st Jun 17, 9:58 AM
    • 18,403 Posts
    • 194,922 Thanks
    Enterprise 1701C
    I bought a cheap bike for just under £200, I don't pay more because I use it to get from A to B and B isn't a place I would like to leave an expensive bike, even locked with a decent D lock.

    I expect this bike to last me 10 years, I cycle regularly but not massive distances, I keep it maintained and oiled/greased.

    If I had bought a second hand bike for £150 I would expect it to be better than my current one, I would expect everything to be inspected and I would expect the bearings to last longer than a few months. If they are refurbishing bikes they are perfectly capable of inspecting everything, chances are some bikes they get are write offs and used for spares, and some bikes they are given have hardly been used.

    Yes, it was out of guarantee, but was it fit for purpose when it was purchased? Bearings should do a lot more mileage than the OP is declaring here so I would suggest it was not fit for purpose.

    Anything purchased should be of satisfactory quality, as described, fit for purpose, and last a reasonable length of time.

    To my mind this bike fails on several of these points, if she had bought it for £30 then fair enough, but £150 is a LOT for a second hand bike.

    Have a look here

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#must

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#goods
    What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 1st Jun 17, 11:27 AM
    • 3,748 Posts
    • 3,747 Thanks
    Retrogamer
    I bought a cheap bike for just under £200, I don't pay more because I use it to get from A to B and B isn't a place I would like to leave an expensive bike, even locked with a decent D lock.

    I expect this bike to last me 10 years, I cycle regularly but not massive distances, I keep it maintained and oiled/greased.

    If I had bought a second hand bike for £150 I would expect it to be better than my current one, I would expect everything to be
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    It was all fine at the point of sale.
    If the wheel is ruined, then it can only be ruined by the bearings wearing out the hub and cones and as soon as that starts to happen you get a clunk and knocking through the wheel in enough time to fix the issue before ruining the wheel.

    If you keep cycling on worn bearings though with the wheel clunking about, it will get ruined after a while.

    inspected and I would expect the bearings to last longer than a few months. If they are refurbishing bikes they are perfectly capable of inspecting everything, chances are some bikes they get are write offs and used for spares, and some bikes they are given have hardly been used.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    Just out of curiousity, have you ever changed or greased the bearings in a back wheel spindle?
    Checking them for me takes seconds by checking for free play in the wheel.
    To strip the wheel down a bit to grease them takes a considerable amount of time. Especially if you need to start removing cassettes / freewheels to gain access.
    I would not expect a second hand bike for £150 to have the bearings checked prior to sale.

    Yes, it was out of guarantee, but was it fit for purpose when it was purchased? Bearings should do a lot more mileage than the OP is declaring here so I would suggest it was not fit for purpose.

    Anything purchased should be of satisfactory quality, as described, fit for purpose, and last a reasonable length of time.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    How many miles should the bearings on a second hand bike do in the winter?

    The bike seemed to last quite a long time without being serviced or inspected. If you buy a used car and drive it 20k miles without checking anything and it starts to fail because of lack of maintenance is that the fault of the owner or the seller?


    To my mind this bike fails on several of these points, if she had bought it for £30 then fair enough, but £150 is a LOT for a second hand bike.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    It depends on the bike.
    £150 for me for a second hand bike is cheap if it's a really good bike. I.e if it's a couple of years old and originally cost £1000, then £150 is a good deal. If it originally cost £200 new, then not so much
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 1st Jun 17, 12:29 PM
    • 18,169 Posts
    • 13,858 Thanks
    agrinnall
    ...if she had bought it for £30 then fair enough, but £150 is a LOT for a second hand bike.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    So where's the cut off figure, £31, £149, something in between?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,622Posts Today

8,661Users online

Martin's Twitter