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    • goochie
    • By goochie 12th May 17, 4:18 PM
    • 462Posts
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    goochie
    Relationship breakdown - 3 children currently in US but want to bring them back to UK
    • #1
    • 12th May 17, 4:18 PM
    Relationship breakdown - 3 children currently in US but want to bring them back to UK 12th May 17 at 4:18 PM
    Hello

    This might turn into a lengthy post, but it is for a friend and I don't know the legal stance in the US or UK.

    Background - my friend is married (both British but have lived in the US for past 11 years) with 3 children 14 year old (UK born with UK passport and green card), 12 year old (UK born with UK passport and green card), and 10 year old (born in US with UK and US passports/citizenship).

    HB has not had steady employment now for apprx 6 years (was very senior and earned a lot of money but his age (60) and possibly other issues has meant that his freelance work has been sporadic at best and it turns out that he has now used all of his pension fund and they are £100K ish in debt in the US - they are about to get evicted from their home and the kids school fees haven't been paid for a year plus other debts.

    Now, my friend is going to come back to the UK as soon as the kids break up from school for the summer for a number of reasons - she hasn't seen her parents for a few years and one of them is sick and as she has said, at least if we are going to be "homeless" it will be here in the UK and not in the US where they have no friends / family that will help them out. Basically if HB doesn't secure a well-paid job within a short space of time (ie, before they have to go back to school in September) she is considering telling HB that they are staying in the UK and he should join them and start again. However, there is a big chance a) he will not want to leave the US and b) that he will get angry/nasty and say that she is kidnapping his kids.

    He is seriously in denial about all of the situation and feels that a great job is just around the corner, my friend is only just discovering all the other debts and "cover ups" that have gone on.

    They have sold everything of value, they don't even have money for the flights but a family member has said they will get a credit card and get them back to the UK. None of her family have a lot of money but they will have a roof over their heads.

    What is the legal stance on this? She really doesn't want it to go this way but they are well past breaking point and she needs to know where she stands if she feels that her children would be safer and in the long term better off starting again in the UK with the support of friends and family.

    I am happy to answer questions (if I know the answer) and give more background if you feel it is necessary. She just doesn't know where to start and I am trying to help. Have any of you been through something similar?

    Thank you in advance for any assistance.
    Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect. It just means you have decided to look beyond the imperfections.
Page 4
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 17th May 17, 3:30 PM
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    thorsoak
    Once again the issue is not helping her settle back to the UK. It's great she has a great friend in you willing to do so. It's the fact that you don't seem to think she is doing anything wrong in going about it in a deceptive way that people are commenting about.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Who are we to judge? Do we know the whole picture? No. Does Goochie know the whole picture? Probably not - but even if she did, it is not her story. She came here, asking for advice as to what her friend might expect were she to come back here with her children.
    • goochie
    • By goochie 17th May 17, 3:31 PM
    • 462 Posts
    • 1,542 Thanks
    goochie
    Once again the issue is not helping her settle back to the UK. It's great she has a great friend in you willing to do so. It's the fact that you don't seem to think she is doing anything wrong in going about it in a deceptive way that people are commenting about.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Again, my feelings on the subject are not relevant or for public debate, you have no idea what I think about anything. I am asking for help and advice, not judgement, for a friend. She has done nothing "deceptive" at all, she hasn't even booked a plane ticket yet. If you have something helpful then I'd love to hear it.
    Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect. It just means you have decided to look beyond the imperfections.
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 17th May 17, 6:02 PM
    • 3,242 Posts
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    bouicca21
    Put aside the speculation about what is or is not best for the children. It's a legal issue. If she brings the children back to the UK on pretence of a holiday and then keeps them here, she will be guilty of abduction and if the husband requests it the English courts will send them back for the issues to be sorted by the American courtS.
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 17th May 17, 10:00 PM
    • 23,239 Posts
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    Can I just say thank you to those who have answered my initial questions.

    This is a very messy situation which involves a lot of people whom I care a great deal about. It is not relevant whether you or I agree or disagree with my friends' decisions up until now or as and when they need to be made over the coming months.

    I am trying to resist getting sucked in to comment on all of your posts regarding your views on what is right/wrong, fair/unfair, I am privy to a lot more background information but I cant possibly put everything that I know down on this forum to feed peoples curiosity.

    Also, at NO point has a decision been made as to where this family will end up living, there is no desire to uproot the children to what is a foreign country and a totally different life, but that might just be the "best" outcome.

    I'm still here if people have experience of similar issues and or feel they can help, thanks again everyone.
    Originally posted by goochie
    Don't get me wrong, from what you've posted on here, her husband sounds like a complete ar5e, but coming back 'for a holiday' when she is considering getting in touch with her old contacts for employment, has presumably at least thought of asking her parents to look after three children, including one with special needs, and has spoken to you about it in terms of 'might as well be poor/homeless here as there', and has even mentioned that her husband won't like it and might refuse permission if he thought she was intending to stay here, so has presented it in terms of needing to visit the parents - well, that is a situation where, combined with how life is over here for poor people/how they are treated when trying to get help from the system, could be far, far, worse for her and the children.

    What if she refuses to go back, he returns, gets a job/somewhere to live and immediately files for the return of the children? What if the kids say they want to go home? They're old enough for their wishes to be taken into account by a judge. So she ends up over here but without them? Legal Aid isn't likely to be forthcoming. And I wouldn't imagine he'd want her back after that, so her chances for returning to the US to be on the same continent as her children would be limited.


    I'm not judging her - but I'm concerned that her actions - the actions she is considering, at any rate - particularly in still paying for clubs and activities when they need to pay for somewhere to live and their day to day bills, like food and fuel, could actually leave her in a worse position than if she actually did something practical in the US to try and get out of the situation right now.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
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