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  • FIRST POST
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 10th May 17, 8:14 PM
    • 14Posts
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    Jasper321
    What to do if an IPC AND BPA member?
    • #1
    • 10th May 17, 8:14 PM
    What to do if an IPC AND BPA member? 10th May 17 at 8:14 PM
    Hi, I received an NTK from Millenium Parking Services (MPS), I have read all of the newbie thread and have followed the advice to send the email template appeal for IPC members. MPS basically rejected the appeal with what looks like their own template reply stating that i'm entitled to appeal to the IAS. I've followed the advice here and have not done anything else but have now received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus for a much higher amount. Looking into the case a bit more I have only just noticed MPS is also a member of the BPA, but I find you have no advice for a member of both the IPC and BPA only one or the other... So what should I do now: Send the BPA appeal template? Request a POPLA code? Send a firm letter to DRP / PPC? Ignore all letters from DRP? Or something else?

    Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.
Page 2
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 16th Oct 17, 9:54 AM
    • 1,740 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123
    You must still file your defence.


    In it you will have to say something like "The Defendant puts the Claimant to full proof if its authority both to issue charges on the land in question, and to issue the charge which is the subject of these proceedings. Since the Claimant has failed to produce any information at the pre-action phase of these proceedings to demonstrate its authority, the Defendant must reserve his position in denying that it has such authority until he has had sight of the written contract between the Claimant and the landowner."
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 16th Oct 17, 9:13 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    Many thanks LoC, I have written to the Claimant now and have changed the defence slightly again.

    I have now created my second draft defence which I need to submit tomorrow evening, so I would very much appreciate a quick check/comments from yourself or anyone else before I submit..

    DEFENCE DRAFT 2/FINAL DRAFT...

    1. It is admitted that the defendant, xxxxxxx residing at xxxxxxx is the registered keeper of the vehicle.

    2. It is denied that any "parking charges or indemnity costs" (whatever they might be) as stated on the Particulars of claim are owed and any debt is denied in it's entirety. The date of the alleged incident is XX/XX/2016 as per the particulars of claim.

    3. The identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date in question has not been ascertained, and no evidence has yet been supplied by the claimant as to who parked the vehicle. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 there is no presumption in law as to who parked a vehicle on private land nor does there exist any obligation for a keeper to name a driver. It is reiterated that:
    a. The Claimant did not identify the driver
    b. The Defendant has no liability, as they are the Keeper of the vehicle and the Claimant must rely upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold the defendant responsible for the driver’s alleged breach. It is the defendants right to choose to defend this claim as the registered keeper.

    4. Notwithstanding that the Claimant claims no right to pursue the Defendant as the registered keeper under The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, the Claimant has failed to meet the conditions of the Act and has never acquired any right to pursue the Defendant in this capacity if it cannot identify the driver. This distinguishes the case from Elliott vs Loake (1982) in which there was irrefutable evidence of the drivers identity and moreover, this case was a criminal case and has since been dismissed previously by Judges in cases brought by Gladstones Solicitors. The Protection of Freedom Act 2012 Schedule 4 has not being complied with and the claimant may not quote reasonable assumption. PATAS and POPLA Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified that with regards to keeper liability, "There is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort"(2015).

    5. I am a resident here and there is no mention of any ‘parking scheme’ in the lease, nor any charges for parking nor a requirement to display any parking permits.
    Primacy of Contract: The idea behind primacy of contract is that a contract cannot be unilaterally altered by one party without the permission of the other. In the case of residential parking, the lease is the key document. If this gives the resident the unfettered right to park then this cannot be altered later, for instance by requiring a permit to park.
    There is a large body of case law which establishes this. In Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011 it was found the managing agent could not reduce the amount of parking spaces available to residents, in this case there is a chance that driver had to park in this area due to all the other parking slots being taken by other people or even non-residents.
    In Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.
    In Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] it was also found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.
    Residential parking companies are there to protect the residents from outside motorists, and not for them to fleece residents parking in their own spaces. It was held that parking restrictions (including the introduction of a permit system) which caused detriment to tenants was in breach of the principle that ''a grantor shall not derogate from his grant”.
    There is reasonable understanding that the defendant has a legal grant and right to park in a non obstructive manner. The site landowner covenanted to give tenants uninterrupted quiet enjoyment of the property and this is harassment. The claimant cannot re-offer parking rights as if it were consideration, on more onerous terms than before, when this right is already granted within a concluded contract, of which this Claimant is not a party.

    6. It is denied that the signs used by this claimant can have created a fair or transparent contract with a driver in any event. The signs were insufficient in terms of their distribution, wording and lighting hence incapable of binding the driver, which distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    a) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) site/entrance signage - breach of the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    b) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    c) The signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
    d) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    e) Absent the elements of a contract, there can be no breach of contract.
    It is my understanding that the signage needs to be plentiful and easily visible, otherwise no contract can be entered by performance.
    In Link Parking v Mr L C9GF5875 [2016] it was found that there was no entrance signage at a residential site and the other signage was not visible. The claim was dismissed.

    7. The parking slot the vehicle was parked in has a ‘V’ for visitors sign displayed which is exactly the same as the ‘V’ for visitors signs in all of the other spaces that the residents are free to park in without the requirement of a permit. This is very misleading.

    8. Despite the request for documentation by the defendant, the claimant has not produced these documents to date. It is reasonable for the defendant to request sight of documents and evidence as there is doubt as to the whether the claimant invoked Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 with fully compliant documents. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant (if any debt exists, which is denied) would be the landowner. Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to Millenium Door and Event Security, and no proof has been provided.

    9. The Claimant’s solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action. HMCS have identified over 1000 similar poorly produced claims and the solicitor's conduct in many of these cases is believed to be currently the subject of an active investigation by the SRA. I believe the term for such conduct is ‘robo-claims’ which is against the public interest, demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and is unfair on unrepresented consumers. I have reason to believe that this is a claim that will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to my significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant.

    10. It is suggested by the defendant that parking companies using the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support.

    11. The alleged debt as described in the claim are unenforceable penalties, being just the sort of unconscionable charges exposed as offending against the penalty rule. This case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes. Charges cannot exist merely to punish drivers. This claimant has failed to show any comparable 'legitimate interest' to save their charge from Lord Dunedin's four tests for a penalty, which the Supreme Court Judges found was still adequate in less complex cases, such as this allegation.

    12. It is submitted that (apart from properly incurred court fees) any added legal fees/costs are simply numbers made up out of thin air, and are an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which would not be recoverable in the small claims court.

    13. It is denied that there was any 'relevant obligation' or 'relevant contract' relating to any single parking event.

    14. It is submitted that the conduct of the Claimant is wholly unreasonable and vexatious.
    As such, I am keeping a note of my wasted time/costs in dealing with this matter.

    15. The Defendant puts the Claimant to full proof of its authority both to issue charges on the land in question, and to issue the charge which is the subject of these proceedings. Since the Claimant has failed to produce any information at the pre-action phase of these proceedings to demonstrate its authority, the Defendant must reserve his position in denying that it has such authority until he has had sight of the written contract between the Claimant and the landowner.

    16. It is requested by the defendant that the court strike out this claim for the reasons stated above, and for similar reasons cited by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court on 20/09/16 where a similar claim was struck out without a hearing, due to Gladstone’s' template particulars for a private parking firm being 'incoherent', failing to comply with CPR16.4, and ''providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law''.

    Statement of Truth: I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 17th Oct 17, 2:38 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    Just had a reply from Millennium following my request to see landowner contract:

    "As you are aware we have instructed Gladstones Solicitors in this matter and as such they act on our behalf. As our instructed Legal Representatives we shall forward any correspondence in relation to this claim, on to them to action, as they deem appropriate.

    Please ensure that any further correspondence for this matter is directed to Gladstones Solicitors".

    The Claimant on the Claim Form is Millennium... either way I'll forward this to Gladstones too...
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 17, 2:54 PM
    • 15,873 Posts
    • 24,609 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Fob-off line from Millennium, you’ll get no response from Gladstones. But you will be able to show the judge that you have been trying to resolve the issue in asking for such documents.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 17-10-2017 at 2:58 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 17th Oct 17, 7:28 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    I'm a little concerned that it's gone a bit quiet on this thread and not all my questions were answered, but I understand people will be busy in their own lives etc so no biggy, so I'll continue to submit the defence in the next hour or so. Thank you all for your help, I'll keep this thread updated.

    P.s. does anyone have an email address for Gladstones?
    • Castle
    • By Castle 17th Oct 17, 8:30 PM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 1,697 Thanks
    Castle

    6. It is denied that the signs used by this claimant can have created a fair or transparent contract with a driver in any event. The signs were insufficient in terms of their distribution, wording and lighting hence incapable of binding the driver, which distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    a) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) site/entrance signage - breach of the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    b) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    c) The signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
    Originally posted by Jasper321
    This was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 on 1st October 2015.
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 17th Oct 17, 8:56 PM
    • 328 Posts
    • 325 Thanks
    claxtome
    P.s. does anyone have an email address for Gladstones?
    administration@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk
    and
    litigation@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk

    I sent to both the last time I contacted them
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 17th Oct 17, 9:33 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    Thanks, anyone know the email address for emailing the defence to? And do I need to scan my signature on it?
    • claxtome
    • By claxtome 17th Oct 17, 9:49 PM
    • 328 Posts
    • 325 Thanks
    claxtome
    Thanks, anyone know the email address for emailing the defence to?
    I assume you are asking about MCOL->
    ccbc@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

    And do I need to scan my signature on it?
    Yes you do
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 17, 9:53 PM
    • 51,673 Posts
    • 65,329 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Need the aq:

    ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

    Easy to Google (like any email, just Google 'contact us' and the name of the company/place). No idea why posters ask:

    https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/courts/county-court-business-centre-ccbc
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 24th Oct 17, 2:31 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    Hi all, defence was submitted on 17/10/17, so it's been a week now and no reply. Would anyone recommend doing anything else while waiting? i.e. sending some other letter...
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 24th Oct 17, 3:32 PM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 2,842 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    No
    You will now get a letter from Gladstones telling you they've asked for a special direction that the case is dealt with on the papers only and with a copy of their DQ

    You will ignore this.

    You will only complete your DQ when you receive it from the court, with a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the small track telling you when you must submit it by. At that stage you send it back and object to a hearing on the papers and ask for a transfer to your local court.
    Any chance you could avoid choosing Cardiff as your local court, as they are not very motorist friendly. Port Talbot is quite good. Swansea's hit and miss. No idea about the others around Cardiff - eg Pontypridd, Bridgend etc.

    After that the papers will be sent to your local court, a judge will look at them and issue a timetable for the final hearing, service of witness statements etc.


    The only thing I might do is when you send in the DQ, do a covering letter saying that as the PoC are so brief and since Millennium didn't comply with its pre-action obligations (paras 3, 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct) you are in difficulties in defending the claim properly. Millennium are notorious for only properly particularising the claim at the witness statement stage. Therefore, could the court please either stay the proceedings and order proper particulars, and evidence, of the claim be produced (including a copy of the landowner authority) - which it has the power to order under para 15(b) of the same Practice Direction - or can it please order that witness statements be served SEQUENTIALLY rather than simultaneously so that when you file your own evidence it is with an understanding of what the claim is and how it will be proved (neither of which you have now).
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 20th Nov 17, 12:43 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    Latest updates:

    Received letter from Gladstones with a copy of Millennium's DQ which is not filled in at all...? Also it say's on the letter 'our client has elected not to mediate' and that they'd be happy to listen to any payment proposal, and as you said they are requesting it to be heard on papers alone.

    Received DQ from court, therefore I shall fill this in and send with your covering letter idea above. It say's return to the court at the address provided, would it be ok to email to ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk where I previously emailed the defence?

    Lastly, I was hoping to select Cardiff court but now i'm a little concerned... are my chances that slim there? And if i did select Port Talbot it asks why, so what would you say?
    • Jasper321
    • By Jasper321 20th Nov 17, 8:26 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasper321
    DQ and letter emailed, I have selected Newport court.
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