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  • FIRST POST
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 10th May 17, 1:46 AM
    • 34Posts
    • 19Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    Link Parking residently PCN
    • #1
    • 10th May 17, 1:46 AM
    Link Parking residently PCN 10th May 17 at 1:46 AM
    Back in January I had a friend visiting at my flat. They were parked in my allocated space and the vehicle was registered using their online process. A PCN was on the windscreen the next day.

    I appealed on behalf of the driver/keeper and the appeal was denied due to there being no record of the vehicle being registered for the parking bay. I took the appeal further and it was again denied because I couldn't prove I had registered the vehicle and Link Parking said that confirmation of parking is provided at point of registration. This is not true and I have video evidence to prove this.

    I later received a letter fro Link Parking requesting payment for the PCN. I emailed this and a copy of my lease to the management company for the site and they advised they will contact Link Parking. Since then I have received a letter before claim from Gladstone Brookes.

    I have told Link Parking that I am not the registered keeper or driver of the vehicle but they claim I have admitted that I am - although in my IAS appeal it states I am appealing on behalf of the keeper. I also have a lease that shows the space is assigned to me and photographs of unauthorised vehicles who have previously parked in my space and have not been ticketed.

    The main sign at point of entry just says parking is for residents only and the link parking signs don't explicitly say you need to register the vehicle on the website - it just says authorised vehicles only and this vehicle was authorised as it was parked in my space with my permission.

    I'm concerned about this going to court and just want to know where I stand
Page 3
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 31st May 17, 5:59 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    Loadsofchildren123 and coupon-mad are best to advise you

    Also, read this, although it's UKPC, same rules apply
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/ukpc-lose-residential-case-charge-not.html

    There was also a case where a PPC trespassed, the defendant
    won and got them banned
    Someone here will point you to that case
    Originally posted by beamerguy

    Thank you, I'll have a read through of that and get myself up to speed.
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 31st May 17, 6:09 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    Wait to see if they issue.


    To answer your Q about the lease rights - which will become relevant at the point/if they sue your visitor - you have a letter from the landlord saying they have those rights and have passed them to you. In theory this should be enough. However, some judges can be a bit pro-PPC and so you are better off getting a copy of the lease to show without any doubt that the rights belong to the landlord - it costs about £10 to get a copy of the lease from Land Registry. You don't need to worry about that at this stage, it's not necessary for your defence and will only become relevant if your visitor faces a claim.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123

    The landlord provide me with what she called the lease document, it was a plan of the land showing the space number and the details of the flat it belongs to (the one I'm renting) - is this enough for the time being or does there need to be a written counterpart?
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 1st Jun 17, 11:15 AM
    • 1,009 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123
    You do it at the same time as putting in your defence, and in the same document.
    You have to pay a fee, in the same way you would if it was a new, freestanding claim (£25 if under £500 claimed I think is the fee).
    We can advise you more if and when they proceed.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 1st Jun 17, 1:18 PM
    • 1,009 Posts
    • 1,736 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    If you do think you would like to counterclaim, you must write the LBC first.


    The pre-action Practice Direction applies equally to you as it does to the PPC. You can't criticise them for failure to comply (which you will want to do) if you don't comply with it yourself. The LBC is a critical part of the Practice Direction, as is producing your "core" documents that you'll rely on to prove your counterclaim.


    Also, sending the LBC may well put them off issuing against you so it's worth doing it for that reason as well.


    What you describe isn't the lease, but it's good enough for present purposes - I think it is the lease plan showing the "demised property" - ie what property was sold to the landlord and which s/he owns the leasehold title to, which is the flat and the space. So produce that with the LBC and the email from your landlord confirming that s/he owns the space as part of the leasehold title, and that s/he has granted you exclusive rights to the space under your tenancy.


    If you were to get as far as a counterclaim, you'd need to order a full copy of the lease from the Land Registry (at a cost of about £10 so it's not a biggie and you'd probably recover the cost if you won). but I don't think you need to worry about that now.
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 11:30 AM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    I've had an email from litigation at gladstones:

    "

    Please find attached the initial appeal made to our client. The email suggests you were the driver of the vehicle and you do not state you are appealing on another person's behalf.


    Regards"

    They sent me a copy of my initial email to Link Parking where my words were 'I received a parking ticket' ��
    I remember calling them the day I got the ticket and they just said it's fine they will cancel the ticket if it's a mistake you just need to appeal. I didn't think there'd be an issue since I knew i registered the vehicle so I didn't get hung up on wording. I learnt that lesson by the second appeal stage.

    Shall I just pay? Or shall I go back to my original defence with the lease?
    Last edited by lillianjcharlotte; 14-06-2017 at 12:49 PM.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 14th Jun 17, 12:02 PM
    • 3,686 Posts
    • 5,222 Thanks
    Half_way
    why on earth would you even consider paying them, when they should be paying you?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 12:30 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    why on earth would you even consider paying them, when they should be paying you?
    Originally posted by Half_way

    True point. I'm just dreading the idea of this having to go further, especially since they're using my initial response as ammo now. I did email Link to advise (long before it got this far) that when I sent that initial email it was informal, since they told me that it would be sorted easily. I figured they wouldn't pursue anything like this since I was a resident with a lease... how naïve.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jun 17, 12:39 PM
    • 5,627 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    beamerguy
    True point. I'm just dreading the idea of this having to go further, especially since they're using my initial response as ammo now. I did email Link to advise (long before it got this far) that when I sent that initial email it was informal, since they told me that it would be sorted easily. I figured they wouldn't pursue anything like this since I was a resident with a lease... how naïve.
    Originally posted by lillianjcharlotte
    When they say "litigation", it is no doubt their tea boy

    Gladstones will be stupid to take a residential case to court, don't they read what is happening in court about residential cases, the judges whoop solicitors doing this.

    Why did Gladstones pursue this ???

    Greed and ignorance and incompetence.

    You have a right to park so that's all you need to show a judge
    is proof
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Jun 17, 12:41 PM
    • 32,345 Posts
    • 16,413 Thanks
    Quentin
    True point. I'm just dreading the idea of this having to go further, especially since they're using my initial response as ammo now. I did email Link to advise (long before it got this far) that when I sent that initial email it was informal, since they told me that it would be sorted easily. I figured they wouldn't pursue anything like this since I was a resident with a lease... how naïve.
    Originally posted by lillianjcharlotte

    It looks like you did admit to being the driver in both an email AND a phone call!


    (If you have inadvertently used your real name as your board name then you need to get MSE to change it - the PPCs monitor this forum and can use your posts and thread against you.)
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 12:48 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    It looks like you did admit to being the driver in both an email AND a phone call!


    (If you have inadvertently used your real name as your board name then you need to get MSE to change it - the PPCs monitor this forum and can use your posts and thread against you.)
    Originally posted by Quentin

    I don't remember how I worded it on the phone call, it was so long ago. I didn't think I was admitting to anything - I was handed the parking ticket and appealing for a friend. I worded it that way since the vehicle was parked in my space. Like I said, I really didn't think it would ever get to this stage. It's my own stupidity.


    I still have the lease document and a written notice from my landlord to say I have dominion over the space. But at this point I'm getting concerned and considering just paying the damn thing.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 14th Jun 17, 12:59 PM
    • 3,686 Posts
    • 5,222 Thanks
    Half_way
    If its a residential space, to which the OP has pre existing/landowner/lease rights to, then it didn't matter one bit who the driver is/was
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jun 17, 1:08 PM
    • 5,627 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    beamerguy


    I still have the lease document and a written notice from my landlord to say I have dominion over the space. But at this point I'm getting concerned and considering just paying the damn thing.
    Originally posted by lillianjcharlotte
    And this is the point that you have rights to that space
    Link parking will not have landlord permission to override your
    rights

    Therefore, Link had no right to obtain details and can now
    be subject to a DATA breach which would be costly for them

    Personally, I would write a swift simple letter to Gladstones
    stating your rights for parking and requesting proof from Link
    that they have permission to override your rights.
    Also warn them that you consider this a data breach and you
    be claiming against them.

    Do not even consider paying them

    Gladstones will probably be into another whooping from the court.
    Chances are very high that at the last minute they discontinue
    when their tea boy realises how stupid he is
    Last edited by beamerguy; 14-06-2017 at 1:11 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 1:14 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    And this is the point that you have rights to that space
    Link parking will not have landlord permission to override your
    rights

    Therefore, Link had no right to obtain details and can now
    be subject to a DATA breach which would be costly for them

    Personally, I would write a swift simple letter to Gladstones
    stating your rights for parking and requesting proof from Link
    that they have permission to override your rights.
    Also warn them that you consider this a data breach and you
    be claiming against them.

    Do not even consider paying them
    Originally posted by beamerguy

    Thank you.
    I need to obtain a full copy of the lease to check the exact wording (at the moment I only have a floor plan style copy) but the landlord letter advised that she is the owner of the space and that Link should take instruction from me as to vehicles I want registered there.


    Writing to Gladestones seems to get me nowhere but I will take your advice and respond with that. Although, I already asked them for copies of the alleged registration emails Link claimed to have sent and all I got back was the email I quoted above, saying 'you're the driver, pay in 7 days'
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jun 17, 1:35 PM
    • 5,627 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Thank you.
    I need to obtain a full copy of the lease to check the exact wording (at the moment I only have a floor plan style copy) but the landlord letter advised that she is the owner of the space and that Link should take instruction from me as to vehicles I want registered there.


    Writing to Gladestones seems to get me nowhere but I will take your advice and respond with that. Although, I already asked them for copies of the alleged registration emails Link claimed to have sent and all I got back was the email I quoted above, saying 'you're the driver, pay in 7 days'
    Originally posted by lillianjcharlotte
    We know writing to Gladstones falls on deaf ears, they are indeed
    very ignorant. That infact goes in your favour, judges do not take
    kindly to ignorant solicitors

    Don't expect a reply, however they cannot refuse a judge
    for the information

    Either email them with a copy to yourself or post and get a "proof of posting" receipt ... not recorder/registered etc.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 1:45 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    We know writing to Gladstones falls on deaf ears, they are indeed
    very ignorant. That infact goes in your favour, judges do not take
    kindly to ignorant solicitors

    Don't expect a reply, however they cannot refuse a judge
    for the information

    Either email them with a copy to yourself or post and get a "proof of posting" receipt ... not recorder/registered etc.
    Originally posted by beamerguy

    Well I've kept copies of the information I requested from them and I'll keep a copy of this as well when I send it.


    Is it worth me telling them what I told Link Parking about that initial email being informal? Or shall I abandon that altogether and stick with the defence of it being my space.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jun 17, 1:52 PM
    • 5,627 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well I've kept copies of the information I requested from them and I'll keep a copy of this as well when I send it.


    Is it worth me telling them what I told Link Parking about that initial email being informal? Or shall I abandon that altogether and stick with the defence of it being my space.
    Originally posted by lillianjcharlotte
    No point in telling Gladstones any more, it would overload
    their limited brain power

    Keep everything just in case
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 4:09 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    Thank you for all the responses. I guess I will just have to ride this out.
    I didn't want to cave and pay because I know that they're in the wrong in this situation but have found a way to wriggle out of every point I've made to them.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Jun 17, 4:18 PM
    • 6,839 Posts
    • 5,858 Thanks
    The Deep
    I find that if letters are ignored, write more letters. On one occasion, when I was in a dispute with Orange, they tried too deal with the matter over the phone. I told them to write to me, but they would not.

    Eventually, I took it to the Ombudsman and my six ignored letters were what swung it for me.

    Keep writing to them, and, when it gets in front of a judge, ask for "unreasonable behaviour" costs at £19 an hour for your time.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • lillianjcharlotte
    • By lillianjcharlotte 14th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lillianjcharlotte
    Where would I be able to get a copy of the lease document? I think it's worth me getting that now to avoid any further issues.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 17, 10:42 PM
    • 48,804 Posts
    • 62,302 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Where would I be able to get a copy of the lease document? I think it's worth me getting that now to avoid any further issues.
    Originally posted by lillianjcharlotte
    Landowners or Managing Agents.

    I was handed the parking ticket and appealing for a friend. I worded it that way since the vehicle was parked in my space. Like I said, I really didn't think it would ever get to this stage.
    You need to state that clearly (again, in writing) so I say, you DO need to contact G's again, NOW. Keep proof of sending your email or letter (free proof of posting from the PO counter, NOT just posting a letter in a post box; NOT Recorded delivery).

    Otherwise they will use the letter they just sent you and will say ''look, she didn't reply, so it's only reasonable that we continued to believe she was driving.''
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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