Death befor taking pension & ex wife dependant

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  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,551
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    masonj3 wrote: »
    The problem seems to be in the t&cs of how his ex wife is being classed as a financial dependant in pension scheme rules a copy of which I am trying to find in his paper work xx

    Because she receives £4 a week! I don't think any reasonable person would count her as financially dependent.

    The fact that her son is called her partner's step-son also illustrates that the couple see themselves in a permanent relationship even if they aren't actually married.

    macca1974's suggestion of a reasonable lump sum sounds worth pursuing.
  • masonj3
    masonj3 Posts: 202 Forumite
    Mojisola wrote: »
    Because she receives £4 a week! I don't think any reasonable person would count her as financially dependent.

    The fact that her son is called her partner's step-son also illustrates that the couple see themselves in a permanent relationship even if they aren't actually married.

    macca1974's suggestion of a reasonable lump sum sounds worth pursuing.



    I totally agree with every word that you have just said - but the trustees are implying that she is a financial dependant and I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on trying to prove that she wasn't. Xxx
  • masonj3
    masonj3 Posts: 202 Forumite
    dunstonh wrote: »
    Did the divorce settlement make her a financial dependent on him?
    was there a clean break?

    The key thing is that they are looking into whether she is a financial dependent. If she is, then she would have a case. However, what you describe is not a financial dependent.

    I have found the court order - it was made under the Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1960. It simply quotes the following "the defendant shall pay the weekly sum of £4 for the benefit of the complainant ". It then quotes the figure that my dad was ordered to pay for his son up until the age of 16 and then says that my dad my notify the court of any change of his address - it is as basic as that xx
  • atush
    atush Posts: 18,719
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    masonj3 wrote: »
    Thank you everyone xx The court order was very basic and says until death or remarriage (his ex). She never remarried but has co habited since early 80s and her house is jointly Owned - her son works in her partners business as a "partner" and their Website refers to him as a stepchild but cohabiting was never mentioned on the court order so I don't think any of us could be considered even though it implies she wasn't truely financially dependant on my dad. I just think it's a shame that given how hard my dad worked and the fact that he expressed his wishes legally that his wishes can be disrespected - :((. I need to try and establish what percentage they would consider his ex wife should be given. Thank you for your thoughts and advice xx

    AS the court order says 'until death' as he has died she has no claim.

    She is also not 'financially dependent' on the 208 she got from him annually.

    These 2 things should see your mum getting it all in t he end. they are holding back in a CYA situation.

    Send them a copy of the divorce decree saying until death, her record of cohabitation, and the family business they have (incl the website).

    Should help them come to the correct decision.
  • Silvertabby
    Silvertabby Posts: 8,972
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    AS the court order says 'until death' as he has died she has no claim.
    I read that as 'until death OR remarriage' of the ex-wife, not on the death of OP's father.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103
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    edited 21 May 2017 at 3:11PM
    Taking the interim payment is fine, it's just set there to allow plenty of margin for the unexpected.

    If the trustees were to want to see her get £4 a week without inflation, it's ironic that it's actually cheaper to do it with inflation. That's because she reached her state pension age before 6 April 2016 and can increase her state pension by 10.4% per year of deferral, pro-rated for parts of a year. So to get her £216 a year of income would mean paying her just £216/0.104=£2077. So suggesting to the trustees that if they wish to provide her the income, this payment to her is the cheapest way to do it and being inflation linked, partly inheritable and not stopping if she married is much more generous than she's getting now.

    However, why would the trustees choose to pay her this when it is a matter for his estate, not them? She is at liberty to seek the money from his estate if she wishes and the divorce order provided her nothing from any pension so it's not for the pension trustees to pay anything but solely a matter for the estate to consider. So explain this to them as well and ask them, if they wish to make the payment, why they wish to do so when it's clearly not required from the pension but just a consideration for the estate.

    Do provide them with the divorce order since the absence of any pension provision in it is useful.

    While it's not a will situation for you in respect of the pension, having a read of http://www.breakinglaw.co.uk/2017/03/will-challenge-by-adult-children.html and the court decision it refers to may be useful. She is entitled to try to seek a payment from his estate but it will be based on her current financial circumstances and the cases involved make it seem unlikely that she could succeed. Referring the trustees to that case may also be useful, since it'll make it abundantly clear that she's also going to be entitled to nothing from his estate because of her current financial situation.

    The trustees will gather evidence and arguments from anyone who is potentially entitled so no surprise that they are contacting her. It doesn't seem likely that they will pay her anything and if desired an offer to pay her £2077 from his estate so she can defer and get an ongoing income that way could be made to the trustees. Worth mentioning to them because his estate is really where any obligation to pay lies.
  • masonj3
    masonj3 Posts: 202 Forumite
    masonj3 wrote: »
    I have found the court order - it was made under the Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1960. It simply quotes the following "the defendant shall pay the weekly sum of £4 for the benefit of the complainant ". It then quotes the figure that my dad was ordered to pay for his son up until the age of 16 and then says that my dad my notify the court of any change of his address - it is as basic as that xx


    **PLEASE READ ** I found the original court order and it does not state until death - it simply states what is quoted above. Thank you to everyone who has replied xx

    Im still non the wiser in all honesty I just dont know whether to send the court order and letter, seek legal advice or hold fire and see what the pension providers next response is xxx
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103
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    Send it. They want information and arguments for different points of view to help them to make their decision.

    She's at liberty to put in her point of view and claim, you should explain yours as I described.
  • masonj3
    masonj3 Posts: 202 Forumite
    Hi, I wrote to the pension company expressing my concerns and providing the with the court order and other information and to ask them for a copy of the T&Cs of my husbands plan re financial dependants etc (see prev posts.) I have received an acknowledgement a few days after sending this thanking me for the information and saying that they will look into the issues which I raised. My letter was forwarded to their complaints team and they have sent me a copy of their complaints procedure. They did not send me the T&Cs of my husbands plan nor the interim payment which they originally offered to me. Their letter to me was dated 26/5 - I just wondered how long to allow before contacting them or if I should write again asking for the info I requested and query where the interim payment is ? Would appreciate your thoughts on here thank you again all xx
  • OldBeanz
    OldBeanz Posts: 1,400
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    There is no reason why you cannot write to the company now acknowledging receipt of their letters and asking for a timetable for expected completion of their investigations.
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