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  • FIRST POST
    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 4th May 17, 5:06 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 16Thanks
    PalaceJim
    Wye Valley Visitor Centre - ParkingEye
    • #1
    • 4th May 17, 5:06 PM
    Wye Valley Visitor Centre - ParkingEye 4th May 17 at 5:06 PM
    Hi all,
    I've received a PCN from Parking Eye at the Wye Valley Visitor Centre, on Easter Sunday. Both me and my son! It was the first (and last) time we visited and it looked closed when we got there. It took a while to find anyone and understand the signs, I bought a ticket 7 mins after entering. At no point did I realise I'd been filmed going in and that the time would start on entering - not from when I bought a ticket!
    We entered at 10:23 and left at 14:37. We paid 4 hours parking from 10:31 to 14:31, so 7 mins before and 7 mins after (14 mins over in total).
    I appealed to Parking eye but they turned it down. How likely am I to win my POPLA appeal?. I can't really afford £120 let alone £200!!. Feeling quite sick about it all.
    Any help or advise would be great.
    Cheers
    Jim
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 4th May 17, 5:48 PM
    • 7,377 Posts
    • 6,422 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 4th May 17, 5:48 PM
    • #2
    • 4th May 17, 5:48 PM
    According to the Law of Contract, the time starts after you have read the contract and, having agreed to its T&C, purchased a ticket, and found a parking space. This is called the "grace period" and set out in the BPA/IPC Code of Conduct. Read this

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th May 17, 5:53 PM
    • 16,497 Posts
    • 20,660 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 4th May 17, 5:53 PM
    • #3
    • 4th May 17, 5:53 PM
    read clause #13 of the BPA CoP closely

    then read post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread and start drafting your popla appeal, where clause #13 will be the main feature, but add all the other relevant legal arguments as well

    in theory, your popla appeal should win on clause #13 alone , 2 grace periods, one before the parking event to find a space, park up , read the signs , pay for a ticket and place it on the vehicle, and another afterwards whilst leaving (over 10 minutes to leave)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th May 17, 9:35 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,097 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 4th May 17, 9:35 PM
    • #4
    • 4th May 17, 9:35 PM
    Is your username a football related? Just wondered.

    We win at POPLA almost every time.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 5th May 17, 3:41 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    PalaceJim
    • #5
    • 5th May 17, 3:41 PM
    • #5
    • 5th May 17, 3:41 PM
    Yes It's PalaceJim as in the 'mighty' Crystal Palace FC.

    Thanks for the advise, I will appeal as I seem to be well under both 'grace' periods. 7 mins before and 7 after. A friend who live nearby has taken pictures of the signs and car park, so if anyone else needs to see them just let me know and I will try to post them on here or send them,

    Thanks
    • llcomp2
    • By llcomp2 5th May 17, 3:52 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    llcomp2
    • #6
    • 5th May 17, 3:52 PM
    • #6
    • 5th May 17, 3:52 PM
    Jim, I would really appreciate these images as I am going to appeal the same PCN from Parking Eye.

    Good luck!
    • Myci85
    • By Myci85 5th May 17, 9:36 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Myci85
    • #7
    • 5th May 17, 9:36 PM
    • #7
    • 5th May 17, 9:36 PM
    Wow, they clearly have no consistency on their charges even in the one place!

    I got a pcn from that same car park on the bank holiday monday, paid for 4 hours, was there for a total of 4 hours 10 mins, and my charge was £100, or £60 if paid early.

    I have had my initial appeal rejected and have just finished compiling my POPLA appeal to send tonight, with lots of helpful advice and pointers from Coupon-mad - let me know if you want to see it. I doubt you'll have the photos yet so too late for me to use, but I'd be interested to see them!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th May 17, 10:02 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,097 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 5th May 17, 10:02 PM
    • #8
    • 5th May 17, 10:02 PM
    I'll leave this for others, I'm a bit busy.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 11th May 17, 12:31 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    PalaceJim
    • #9
    • 11th May 17, 12:31 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 17, 12:31 PM
    I have photos of the Wye Valley Visitor Centre car park and signs if anyone needs to check them.
    Message me with your email and I'll send a link to the folder.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 11th May 17, 1:14 PM
    • 3,491 Posts
    • 3,551 Thanks
    DoaM
    Why not just post a broken* link to the online folder in a reply here?

    Or are you trying the harvest email addresses?

    * change http to hxxp
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 11th May 17, 1:36 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    PalaceJim
    dropbox.com/sh/qkpb9drk7gwqwi1/[/url] AAAwXJyh0X6xnOe8BaoGXjCIa?dl=0
    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 11th May 17, 1:39 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    PalaceJim
    Here is the appeal based on the lack of grace period, can someone let me know if this looks ok and if to add anything else, cheers...................

    I am the registered keeper and I am appealing this parking charge from ParkingEye at Wye Valley Visitor Centre Car Park because:
    No period of grace given for the driver to read the signs within the car park and pay for ticket and no grace period was given for the group to safely exit the car park afterwards.
    The BPA Code of Practice (13.2) states that parking operators "should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission, you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action." In addition, the BPA Code of Practice (13.4) states that the parking operators “should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”

    The driver of the car at the time was captured by ANPR cameras driving in to the car park at 10.22:52 and driving out at 14:37:42 on the same date. Total time from driving in the main gate and exiting was 4 Hours 14 mins. The driver paid for 4 hours parking as seen on the receipt in ‘Doc. 1’.
    After entering the car park the driver parked in an almost empty car park, there seemed to be noone around and the main visitor reception was closed. It was not apparent that anything was open. Only after a few minutes did they find the Butterfly Zoo was open and after making sure everything would open and available to visit, they were told where to purchase a ticket. There is only one machine in the car park to pay and it is not signposted at all, it is very hard to find especially if, like the driver, you had never visited before (see picture 2 of machine in far corner of car park from where they parked (also see closed main building as it was on the day in question). The driver purchased their ticket at 10:31 a mere 7 minutes after entering the main gate. There are no signs or barriers at the main gate to let you know any of the parking rules or time (see photo 1) and the first sign only says ‘to pay at machine’ and is a long way into the car park high up a poll. There is nothing to let you know that time you entered the gate and nothing to say you have been photographed on entry and time will start and end from when you pass the main gate, not when you actually park or have decided to stay. I believe that the 7 minutes it took to work out if they were going to park, if the attraction was open, read the rules and signs regarding parking and purchase the ticket to be completely ‘reasonable’.

    Later that day the driver exited the main gate at 14:37 less than 7 minutes after the paid time had ended at 14:31. When returning to their car within the 4 hours, as they were in a large group of seven people, which included a young girl and a 74 year old parent, they took a while to get ready to leave and also the 74 year old needed help to visit the lavatories. The car park and attraction was now very busy, being Easter Sunday, and there was a wait for the toilets and also a queue of cars to exit the car park. An addition 7 minutes is not an unreasonable time to safely get ready and leave the car park and is well below the minimum 10 minutes allowed as a grace period as set out in the BPA code of practice.

    It is very clear from the evidence that ParkingEye have failed to uphold the minimum grace periods as set out in the BPA Code of Practice as the total time in the carpark exceeded the paid period in total by only 14 minutes (7 minutes prior to purchasing a ticket, and 7 minutes after the parking period had ended).

    Therefore it is respectfully requested that this parking charge request appeal be upheld.
    • KTrazor
    • By KTrazor 5th Jun 17, 10:30 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    KTrazor
    Yes please to photos...
    I too have just been sent a parking fine by Parking Eye for staying 14 minutes in the car park in pouring rain - we didn't even get out of the car and didn't see any t&c's. We just thought it was a pay and display. We decided to leave as we couldn't play crazy golf in torrential rain. Can't believe this. Gutted!
    We are going to appeal (we were with another family so they got a fine too). I'd love photos of the signs etc if you have them. How can I privately send you my email address?
    Huge thanks.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jun 17, 10:31 PM
    • 51,501 Posts
    • 65,097 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I too have just been sent a parking fine by Parking Eye for staying 14 minutes in the car park in pouring rain - we didn't even get out of the car and didn't see any t&c's. We just thought it was a pay and display. We decided to leave as we couldn't play crazy golf in torrential rain. Can't believe this. Gutted!
    We are going to appeal (we were with another family so they got a fine too). I'd love photos of the signs etc if you have them. How can I privately send you my email address?
    Huge thanks.
    Originally posted by KTrazor
    Why would you need to do that? The NEWBIES thread tells you how to appeal.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 12th Jun 17, 3:10 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    PalaceJim
    Update - Today I finally won my appeal against the Parking Eye fine at Wye Valley!
    POPLA over ruled the PCN as 'inefficient grace period was given' and 'the signage does not clearly state that parking time starts upon entry to the car park' - so happy but still very angry at the time and effort this has taken and the stress involved.
    Thanks everyone for their help and keep fighting!
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 12th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Well done, great job.

    Would you mind posting your POPLA reply in the "POPLA Decisions" thread (it's a sticky right at the top of the main page of this forum)? Would be useful to other users in the future. Thanks.
    • PalaceJim
    • By PalaceJim 13th Jun 17, 4:33 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    PalaceJim
    I've posted the decision on the POPLA thread. As Parking Eye are not following BPA guidelines are they illegally obtaining my details from the DVLA?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 17, 4:45 PM
    • 40,464 Posts
    • 80,850 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I've posted the decision on the POPLA thread. As Parking Eye are not following BPA guidelines are they illegally obtaining my details from the DVLA?
    Originally posted by PalaceJim
    It could be considered a DPA breach, but this is contract not criminal law, so possibly unlawful but not illegal.

    A county court/small claims court for a DPA breach is the way to go if you are up for it.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    • 7,377 Posts
    • 6,422 Thanks
    The Deep
    Why not ask the DVLA what they think? Also, why not send the PPC an invoice for your time, you will not get any money but it will cost them time to fight it, especially if you threaten them with court if they do not pay

    Have you written bad stuff on the Centre's TripAdviser, Facebook, and website pages? That also wastes their time, and costs them money.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jun 17, 4:52 PM
    • 15,464 Posts
    • 24,178 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I've posted the decision on the POPLA thread. As Parking Eye are not following BPA guidelines are they illegally obtaining my details from the DVLA?
    Originally posted by PalaceJim
    Possibly a breach of the DPA principles.

    We are at an early stage of testing the DPA in this context, with a couple of cases having some costs awarded against the PPC for a breach of the DPA as part of a wider judgment while the motorist was defending a standard parking charge case. But we haven't yet seen (what I would call) a 'full-blown' case where a green light has been given to encourage a flood of claims. But work is no doubt underway in preparing some trailblazer cases.

    I'd suggest you wait and just see how things pan out over the coming months. The advantage in this strategy is that it allows time for cases to be honed (as no doubt in the early days there might be as many lost as won - the lottery of the small claims court) and gives you a better chance of making your case 'stick'. The beauty of the system (for you, not PE) is that you have up to 6 years to pursue them.

    Have a read of Timothea's post to start your grey matter getting a handle on this. This will give you the background and conditions for you to consider and determine whether you might, in due course, have a case to pursue.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

    Other Sources

    http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act

    Some apposite blogs from the Parking Prankster:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/smart-parking-settle-out-of-court-for.html

    Latter part of this blog:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/heath-parade-graham-park-way-scam-site.html

    On PePiPoo, regular contributor 'Lynnzer' seems to be taking a lead in pushing for the pursuit of DPA breaches by PPCs. He has written a number of well constructed Letters Before Claim requiring the PPC to pay the motorist between £250 and £750 as compensation for the stress they have been put under by the PPC, or risk the matter resulting in a formal claim at the Small Claims Court. .

    Do a search there to get the hang of what this is all about and whether you might want to take this fight back to the PPC.

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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