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  • FIRST POST
    • ggildas
    • By ggildas 4th May 17, 9:36 AM
    • 15Posts
    • 2Thanks
    ggildas
    Can I Refuse Universal Credit?
    • #1
    • 4th May 17, 9:36 AM
    Can I Refuse Universal Credit? 4th May 17 at 9:36 AM
    Hello all,

    As an existing claimant of JSA with Disability Premium my Job Centre want me to move to UC by July.
    I have done the calculations and I will be worse off on UC, as it stands now with no equivalent to DP top-up and Transitional Protection or Manged Migration is not in place yet.
    I already have a "contract" regarding job seeking with JC+/DWP, which I always comply with.
    Can I refuse to move to UC as there has been no significant change in circumstances?

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 4th May 17, 10:50 AM
    • 10,520 Posts
    • 12,439 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #2
    • 4th May 17, 10:50 AM
    • #2
    • 4th May 17, 10:50 AM
    I will keep looking but this is the latest information I can find.

    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/universal-credit-and-natural-migration

    You are right that natural migration does not have any transitional protection and that it is usually a change of circumstances triggering the change.

    Please note that, even according to the article, because of the 'newness' of natural migration the 'regulations' do not appear to available. As I said I will keep looking in case there have been memos issued to the DWP in certain areas.

    Are you in a full service area for UC?

    It might help if you ask under which regulations they are saying you are going to be naturally migrated. At least, that would be a start. Also, ask if this is mandatory. You might need to insist that you speak to a manager/supervisor and be shown a copy of the regulations.

    Let us know how you get on.
    • ggildas
    • By ggildas 4th May 17, 11:12 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ggildas
    • #3
    • 4th May 17, 11:12 AM
    • #3
    • 4th May 17, 11:12 AM
    Thanks pmlindyloo
    My local JC+ is switching in July. So I would say that it will be LIVE but I will check.
    • ggildas
    • By ggildas 4th May 17, 11:16 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ggildas
    • #4
    • 4th May 17, 11:16 AM
    • #4
    • 4th May 17, 11:16 AM
    pmlindyloo,

    Just read that article and, to my way of reading it, it will not make any difference if it is FULL or LIVE. In 2019 it will.
    Also, no mention of opting not to change.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 4th May 17, 12:21 PM
    • 1,247 Posts
    • 1,339 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #5
    • 4th May 17, 12:21 PM
    • #5
    • 4th May 17, 12:21 PM
    Generally it is new claimants who need to claim UC when their area goes to UC.

    Existing claimants, I think, would stay on legacy benefits (such as JSA) until migration (some years away), unless they have a change of circumstances (e.g. single claim to a joint claim) and are in a full service area.

    Do you have a change of circumstances?
    If not then it's likely the information you have been given could be muddled or incorrect.
    There is a lot of confusion around UC and as pmlindyloo says regulations are yet to be published.
    I understand that even UC training for DWP staff is running late.

    The drop in income for a claimant with disability premiums moving, without transitional protection, from legacy benefits to UC is substantial. For an individual in receipt of both the enhanced and the severe disability premium it would amount to around £4k a year.
    I would second pmlindyloo's advice to ask for clarification by a JC manager of the need for you to move to UC. If confirmed, your local CAB may be able to offer help with this.
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 04-05-2017 at 12:24 PM.
    • sammyjammy
    • By sammyjammy 4th May 17, 2:47 PM
    • 4,129 Posts
    • 4,472 Thanks
    sammyjammy
    • #6
    • 4th May 17, 2:47 PM
    • #6
    • 4th May 17, 2:47 PM
    Hello all,

    As an existing claimant of JSA with Disability Premium my Job Centre want me to move to UC by July.
    I have done the calculations and I will be worse off on UC, as it stands now with no equivalent to DP top-up and Transitional Protection or Manged Migration is not in place yet.
    I already have a "contract" regarding job seeking with JC+/DWP, which I always comply with.
    Can I refuse to move to UC as there has been no significant change in circumstances?

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by ggildas
    Depends what you mean by no significant Change of Circumstance, your definition of significant may be different to theirs.
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 4th May 17, 4:07 PM
    • 3,332 Posts
    • 2,281 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    • #7
    • 4th May 17, 4:07 PM
    • #7
    • 4th May 17, 4:07 PM
    I will keep looking but this is the latest information I can find.

    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/universal-credit-and-natural-migration

    You are right that natural migration does not have any transitional protection and that it is usually a change of circumstances triggering the change.

    Please note that, even according to the article, because of the 'newness' of natural migration the 'regulations' do not appear to available. As I said I will keep looking in case there have been memos issued to the DWP in certain areas.

    Are you in a full service area for UC?

    It might help if you ask under which regulations they are saying you are going to be naturally migrated. At least, that would be a start. Also, ask if this is mandatory. You might need to insist that you speak to a manager/supervisor and be shown a copy of the regulations.

    Let us know how you get on.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    There are regs for natural migration - no regs for managed migration.

    OP - it sounds like your area is entering full service in July. If you are on JSA at that point unless you have a change of circumstances which ends your JSA claim then you should stay on JSA.

    However, I have heard in some areas suggestions that JC+ are contacting people to say they will have to move over but that is not what the current regulations say.

    IQ
    • ggildas
    • By ggildas 5th May 17, 7:32 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ggildas
    • #8
    • 5th May 17, 7:32 AM
    • #8
    • 5th May 17, 7:32 AM
    Thanks to all posters,
    Nice to know that I am not alone in finding it difficult to get straight answers.
    The only significant change is the award for PIP (was on DLA) which is ring-fenced from means-testing. Nothing that would require a fresh claim, which seems to be a guaranteed trigger.
    So to pull it together JSA->UC
    New claim = UC
    You want to = UC
    DWP want to = Which way is the wind blowing.

    ggildas
    • ggildas
    • By ggildas 19th May 17, 12:17 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ggildas
    • #9
    • 19th May 17, 12:17 PM
    • #9
    • 19th May 17, 12:17 PM
    Hi all,
    Quick update.
    Had meeting at local JC. 2 staff and 10 clients.
    I raised 4 questions with them. To which I got the responses "not sure/maybe/soon/Speak to your MP".
    Each of these was swiftly followed by "We are still undergoing training".
    However, a 5th Q garnished some useful information.
    To the question "How would UC reconcile the difference between JSA 4 weekly cycle and Housing Benefit payments variable monthly cycle? I was told that "You will be paid UC on a fixed date each month, 7 days after your NEW claim is submitted".
    It looks like they are gearing up for everyone to put in a fresh claim, regardless of "managed migration" or safety nets being in position.
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