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  • FIRST POST
    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 4th May 17, 1:09 AM
    • 25Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    UKPC SCS Law Court Help!!!
    • #1
    • 4th May 17, 1:09 AM
    UKPC SCS Law Court Help!!! 4th May 17 at 1:09 AM
    Hello all!

    Recently I was visiting friends and stayed in the local "private residential parking" and on several occasions failed to display a visitor pass...

    The friend has since moved and we have lost contact which is just my luck!

    I racked up a few tickets and assumed the old fashioned advice of just ignore and I did such with the bombardment of letters for them, I have now received a letter from SCS Law saying they are planning legal action...

    Scared is an understatement... Can I Base my case on poor signage or that I was not in the wrong but I don't have a copy of the permit as it was always returned to the friend...

    I know it's not a good situation and I am sorry if it's a "serves me right type deal" but I could really use your expert help

    I responded to the letter using a template from the forums requesting their contract with the land owner and other details and am awaiting their response

    Thank-you all for your incredible service on these forums!
    Last edited by Alex.o.2017; 04-05-2017 at 1:10 AM. Reason: Extra info
Page 3
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jun 17, 11:08 PM
    • 46,921 Posts
    • 60,258 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You could send them a warning that if they proceed to a claim, you will counter-claim for twice the sum, and explain why.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 7th Jun 17, 9:52 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    Hahaha that is a very good idea! What grounds would I have to claim against them? Harassment? Stress? Would a judge not be annoyed that I was "time wasting" with a counter claim... Thanks all
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jun 17, 10:05 PM
    • 46,921 Posts
    • 60,258 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Data misuse under the DPA and harassment = compensation. I wasn't joking.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 7th Jun 17, 11:24 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    That is an amazing point! Is there a template I can Base off or should I knock something up and post for approval?

    Coupon-mad you are a serious credit to not just this forum but humanity in general!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Jun 17, 12:27 AM
    • 46,921 Posts
    • 60,258 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No template as this is quite new but we are learning this year how these can win:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5655023

    Thread about DPA misuse and its possible application in PPC cases, thanks to Timothea here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 8th Jun 17, 9:51 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    That makes for some fantastic reading! I will go over it and put a letter together and post on here. I have found something of interest on there though... I am being pursued as keeper and the signage although small and often missing from the ticket area states "no unauthorised parking" would this constitute a data misuse as the keeper cannot be hold accountable for trespass?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jun 17, 10:09 AM
    • 13,142 Posts
    • 20,525 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I am being pursued as keeper and the signage although small and often missing from the ticket area states "no unauthorised parking" would this constitute a data misuse as the keeper cannot be hold accountable for trespass?
    They first have to contact the keeper in an attempt to ascertain the driver's details. A trespass case would first have to be proved, then that could open up the potential for a DPA breach claim.

    But these are very early days in pursuing this strategy and only a couple of DPA breach claims have gone through. Any potential case you might have seems to have a further, unexplored dimension.

    Unless you are prepared to spearhead this 'trespass' dimension through (and I'd suggest there'll be choppy waters at this early stage) with lots of work and research, then maybe just go for the more basic approach. Or, wait to see (and learn) how the early cases are being dealt with, then choose your moment.

    You have up to 6 years to pursue this.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 8th Jun 17, 10:11 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    I have just spoken to the local council and they state all roads in that area are public highway and there is no "private land" very ironic considering the "private land" UKPC signage... I will put together a good response about the DPA counter claim and compile my evidence for any case presented. I will state the poor signs, missing entrance signage and the confusion about where the ppcs remit actually is and ends. Then go in with the tickets are for no permit which is unauthorised parking eg no contract made but trespassing... You know trespassing on PUBLIC highways happy days let me chase up that planning query too!
    Last edited by Alex.o.2017; 08-06-2017 at 10:13 AM. Reason: My terrible spelling
    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 8th Jun 17, 10:15 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    They first have to contact the keeper in an attempt to ascertain the driver's details. A trespass case would first have to be proved, then that could open up the potential for a DPA breach claim.

    But these are very early days in pursuing this strategy and only a couple of DPA breach claims have gone through. Any potential case you might have seems to have a further, unexplored dimension.

    Unless you are prepared to spearhead this 'trespass' dimension through (and I'd suggest there'll be choppy waters at this early stage) with lots of work and research, then maybe just go for the more basic approach. Or, wait to see (and learn) how the early cases are being dealt with, then choose your moment.

    You have up to 6 years to pursue this.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    OK I will steer clear of said waters for the moment put that you so much for the detailed explanation and on going support
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 8th Jun 17, 10:19 AM
    • 407 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    safarmuk
    I have just spoken to the local council and they state all roads in that area are public highway and there is no "private land"
    If the roads are public highway then who instructed the PPC? Surely, only the council would have been able to do so.

    To be absolutely clear, were you parked on the road itself (e.g. on the tarmac that makes up the roadway between the kerbs) or on a visitors bay which was off the road (e.g. in a bay that was on the pavement side of the kerb that makes up the roadway)
    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 8th Jun 17, 10:23 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    80% of the tickets are on a road (between curbs) where the double yellows stop and there is a car park behind, however the other tickets are from car parks that you need to cross over the payment to get to
    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 8th Jun 17, 10:25 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    If the roads are public highway then who instructed the PPC? Surely, only the council would have been able to do so.

    To be absolutely clear, were you parked on the road itself (e.g. on the tarmac that makes up the roadway between the kerbs) or on a visitors bay which was off the road (e.g. in a bay that was on the pavement side of the kerb that makes up the roadway)
    Originally posted by safarmuk
    When I requested proof of who instructed the PPC from SCS Law they stated "their client may do this" it all looks dodgy with signs attached to lampposts and tiny signs with no planning permission which I am led to believe is normal play for PPC scammers!
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 8th Jun 17, 10:27 AM
    • 407 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    safarmuk
    80% of the tickets are on a road (between curbs) where the double yellows stop and there is a car park behind, however the other tickets are from car parks that you need to cross over the payment to get to
    Ok, so if what the council say is correct then, the PCNs given when you are parked on the road (between the kerbs) are questionable because it is not private land and the PPC has overstepped - but you need to prove this. I'd be interested in others opinions on this.

    The remaining 20% probably relate to the driver parking in bays which make up part of the estate where your friend used to live and are likely to be classed as private land.

    Do you have the PPCs photo for each PCN to see which are on the road and which are not?

    When I requested proof of who instructed the PPC from SCS Law they stated "their client may do this" it all looks dodgy with signs attached to lampposts and tiny signs with no planning permission which I am led to believe is normal play for PPC scammers!
    Lets be honest here, SCS law probably don't know anything about your case except that they need to pursue you for money. It's unlikely they even know the street, area etc. As and when it goes to court you will likely just get bland and generic particulars of claim and you will be lucky if the original PCNs are in their evidence pack (which is why you always keep all the documentation sent to you with regard to a PCN)
    Last edited by safarmuk; 08-06-2017 at 10:31 AM.
    • Alex.o.2017
    • By Alex.o.2017 13th Jun 17, 1:14 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Alex.o.2017
    OK then... Quick update as I have been quietly doing my investigating I have received a land ownership map from the council which highlights the space I got a number of tickets in as "public highway" but does also highlight the "car park" spaces as private land... One car park out of the three ticket locations has no entrance signage and where the ticket was given the driver would have not had or seen any signage so I feel this is a good stance. The final location has an entrance sign but the "conditions" or parking signage is very small and could easily of been missed also... I feel strong that I can avoid all tickets apart from the location with the entrance sign as I feel that is a weak case. I am typing up my response to SCS law now and taking my time doing so as I don't want to put anything in there I don't want them knowing also if and when it does go to court I will be back with outcomes and transcripts to better arm the next scam victim
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