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  • FIRST POST
    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 3rd May 17, 10:08 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 7Thanks
    kfurfie05
    IPC appeal denied
    • #1
    • 3rd May 17, 10:08 PM
    IPC appeal denied 3rd May 17 at 10:08 PM
    Hi all

    My mum and I went out in her car and parked in Manchester and I used an app to pay for the ticket. Unfortunately, I forgot to change the registration on the app and bought a ticket against my car instead (I use the app regularly). We got a ticket from Excel for £60 (or £100 if we didn't pay within 14 days).

    We appealed straight away and sent photos of the ticket bought, just against the wrong registration. It was denied. We went through the IPC and provided all evidence that a ticket was bought, just against the wrong registration, it was denied again. We appealed the dismissal (which went to the adjudicator and it was dismissed again as they said it is human error, which I do understand).

    But I'm wondering, as Excel are a private company, I've read they cannot enforce this. But does this change now we've gone through the IPC?

    I'm really stumped with this so hope someone can help!
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd May 17, 10:27 PM
    • 14,790 Posts
    • 18,604 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 3rd May 17, 10:27 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd May 17, 10:27 PM
    makes no difference if this had been ignored, appealed to excel, and/or appealed to the IPC

    Excel can try to enforce this and they do so daily in one or more courts up and down england and wales, especially stockport and manchester

    so yes they can try to enforce it

    google BARRY BEAVIS to see how he fared in 3 courts against Parking Eye

    you are now at the stalemate option, ignoring for 6 years unless you receive an LBC or an MCOL from Northampton

    Excel have 6 years to issue an MCOL, or to instruct a firm like B W LEGAL to do so on their behalf (which they do daily)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 3rd May 17, 10:42 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    • #3
    • 3rd May 17, 10:42 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd May 17, 10:42 PM
    Hi Redx,

    Thanks for replying so quickly. It looks like things didn't go well for him.

    I'll put the situation to my mum again and see what she wants to do. Pay up or continue the stalemate and keep fighting.

    Thanks again!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd May 17, 11:18 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,787 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 3rd May 17, 11:18 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd May 17, 11:18 PM
    Things do NOT go well for Excel against forum defences (ask Lamilad!) and if your local Court is Manchester, count yourself lucky! They and Skipton Court seem to have sussed the scam of PPC claims; here's the latest win, not Excel but typical:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5566501

    Never fear. Paying them supports and sponsors this bunch of ex-clampers and Simon Renshaw-Smith is not worthy of your Mum's money:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713705/The-parking-ticket-fat-cats-one-s-chum-Prezza-two-drive-Aston-Martins-Meet-men-ve-millions-motorists-misery.html

    Honestly, do not pay, this is worth the fight. We've never seen an Excel case lost here where we assisted in the defence and the defendant was well prepared. This is very much a defendable case and there is no risk of a CCJ as long as court papers are not ignored. BW Legal run (ruin?) Excel cases!

    The IPC IAS ''decision'' isn't worth worrying about. Think of a small claims decision as the REAL appeal stage.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-05-2017 at 11:21 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 16th Jun 17, 11:44 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:44 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Jun 17, 11:44 AM
    Hi everyone,

    I've received a letter today that states its a "notice of intended court proceedings".

    It's stating I now owe the full £100, threatening to obtain a CCJ against me, the works.

    What are my next steps? I'm getting a bit nervous!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    • 13,626 Posts
    • 21,373 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    I'm getting a bit nervous!
    Of what? Cojones!

    Is the letter from Debt Recovery Plus?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 16th Jun 17, 12:32 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:32 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jun 17, 12:32 PM
    Of what? Cojones!

    Is the letter from Debt Recovery Plus?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Hahaha I'm usually one of those people who just pays to avoid the threatening letters!

    Right, I'll toughen up.

    It just says it's from Excel Parking, from Mark Robinson the Debt and Litigation Manager. It says the Deadline for Action is 26/06/2017.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    • 14,790 Posts
    • 18,604 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    looks like they are going to go ahead and take this to court , because as I told you before they can try to enforce this , but would have to persuade a judge , they have lost a lot recently, especially in greater manchester

    so treat it as an LBC and reply with a rebuttal to their claim. this may not stave off the inevitable but its the chance to put forward the fact that a ticket was bought yet again , so that you can show a judge you tried to reason with these morons
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,787 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jun 17, 7:58 PM
    Seconded, respond and expect a court claim. Expect to win.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 17th Jun 17, 8:44 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    looks like they are going to go ahead and take this to court , because as I told you before they can try to enforce this , but would have to persuade a judge , they have lost a lot recently, especially in greater manchester

    so treat it as an LBC and reply with a rebuttal to their claim. this may not stave off the inevitable but its the chance to put forward the fact that a ticket was bought yet again , so that you can show a judge you tried to reason with these morons
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thanks everyone.

    Can I just ask what you mean by treat as an LBC? And how would I reply with a rebuttal?

    Thanks again for all your help!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jun 17, 10:19 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,787 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Just draft something in reply, stating they have no case and you have since discovered that IAS decisions are widely considered biased towards the parking operators, and that the IPC and their owners do not come to these matters with clean hands.

    Remind them that the tariff was paid and that their App failed to comply with the requirements for a distance contract. Had clearer information about the alleged 'contract' been supplied at the time of the transaction, as required in Consumer Law, you would never have agreed to pay a penalty AS WELL AS the tariff and would have noticed the VRN error, but they failed to transparently repeat the full contractual information to you, in the text data exchanged.

    State this is the very essence of an unconscionable penalty which was held by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, [2015]to be punitive, disproportionate to the small tariff and thereby, unrecoverable.

    Tell them to bring it on, if they think they have a cause of action, because at least small claims are not the kangaroo court that the IAS is widely known to be. And that you will not enter into further correspondence wasting your time, but will claim for punitive costs in your defence and Witness Statement, should they commence proceedings knowing full well that the tariff was paid, and knowing that their own App fails to set out the contractual details as required in law.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-06-2017 at 10:21 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 17th Jun 17, 10:30 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    Just draft something in reply, stating they have no case and you have since discovered that IAS decisions are widely considered biased towards the parking operators, and that the IPC and their owners do not come to these matters with clean hands.

    Remind them that the tariff was paid and that their App failed to comply with the requirements for a distance contract. Had clearer information about the alleged 'contract' been supplied at the time of the transaction, as required in Consumer Law, you would never have agreed to pay a penalty AS WELL AS the tariff and would have noticed the VRN error, but they failed to transparently repeat the full contractual information to you, in the text data exchanged.

    State this is the very essence of an unconscionable penalty which was held by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, [2015]to be punitive, disproportionate to the small tariff and thereby, unrecoverable.

    Tell them to bring it on, if they think they have a cause of action, because at least small claims are not the kangaroo court that the IAS is widely known to be. And that you will not enter into further correspondence wasting your time, but will claim for punitive costs in your defence and Witness Statement, should they commence proceedings knowing full well that the tariff was paid, and knowing that their own App fails to set out the contractual details as required in law.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Hot damn. That is amazing. Thank you so much.

    You've made my Saturday night!

    I'll let you know how it goes!
    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 18th Jun 17, 7:51 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    Hi, I've drafted something (and by drafted I mean I've reworded what you've said haha).

    Just a quick one also - the text message sent to me does state the VRN. Should I still go ahead and include this the text did not include the full contractual information?

    This is what I've got below: (thanks again)

    I am writing to you in response to a letter sent on (DATE) regarding a parking ticket issued on (DATE).

    Since my last appeal, I have discovered that IAS decisions are widely considered biased towards parking operators such as yourselves. With this in mind, I believe that your company has no case to further pursue this ticket.

    I would like to remind you that the tariff was paid and the application used to purchase said ticket failed to comply with the requirements for a distance contract. If I had been supplied with clearer information about the alleged contract during of the purchase of the ticket, as required by Consumer Law, I would never have agreed to pay a penalty as well as a tariff. The registration number error would have also been noticed by myself had you accurately supplied full contractual information in the text data supplied.

    This is the very essence of an unconscionable penalty, which was held by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye Ltd V Beavis [2015] to be punitive, disproportionate to the small tariff and thereby, unrecoverable.

    I will not enter into further correspondence with your company, as it has already taken up too much of my time. However, if needed, I will claim for punitive costs in my defence and Witness statement if you do commence proceedings knowing full well that the tariff was paid, and knowing that the application used fails to send out the contractual details as required by law.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Jun 17, 9:11 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,787 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    the text message sent to me does state the VRN. Should I still go ahead and include this the text did not include the full contractual information?
    Yes - and your draft looks good to go - because:

    - the parking firm are unlikely to check niceties like what the third party texts said

    and

    - there are other informational requirements of distance contracts which they have omitted, it's just easier to mention the VRN and tie it to the fact you would never have agreed to pay £100 penalty and the tariff, had the contract information been clear. If this ends up in small claims, you can go into more detail about distance contacts and we will help. Everyone here wins, pretty much, and small claims are not a worry v parking firm oiks.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-06-2017 at 9:14 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 20th Jun 17, 2:04 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    Thanks so much! I'll get it sent off today!
    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 12th Jul 17, 8:21 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    Update:

    I sent the letter off on the 20th of June, and have just received a letter from BW Legal advising that my case has been passed to the legal team (as expected!).

    There is nothing in their letter referring to the letter I sent - it just says the balance outstanding is now £100 plus their £60 associated costs.

    It does advise that they have a portal where I can upload any disputes against the PCN.

    Do you think I should do this? Or should I print off the letter and resend to the legal team, with a cover note explaining it was sent on the 20th June? Or both?

    Thanks in advance again!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 12th Jul 17, 8:29 PM
    • 7,172 Posts
    • 7,270 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Update:

    I sent the letter off on the 20th of June, and have just received a letter from BW Legal advising that my case has been passed to the legal team (as expected!).

    There is nothing in their letter referring to the letter I sent - it just says the balance outstanding is now £100 plus their £60 associated costs.

    It does advise that they have a portal where I can upload any disputes against the PCN.

    Do you think I should do this? Or should I print off the letter and resend to the legal team, with a cover note explaining it was sent on the 20th June? Or both?

    Thanks in advance again!
    Originally posted by kfurfie05
    and they are going to adjudicate?

    you have already sent your appeal (with proof of postage) this has been ignored , and mentioned in a witness statement if needed ,

    you are now playing poker , see who folds first , but as BW are being paid , they will go as far as they can , then !!!! up , or pull out ,
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 17, 9:13 PM
    • 48,322 Posts
    • 61,787 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Update:

    I sent the letter off on the 20th of June, and have just received a letter from BW Legal advising that my case has been passed to the legal team (as expected!).

    There is nothing in their letter referring to the letter I sent - it just says the balance outstanding is now £100 plus their £60 associated costs.

    It does advise that they have a portal where I can upload any disputes against the PCN.

    Do you think I should do this? Or should I print off the letter and resend to the legal team, with a cover note explaining it was sent on the 20th June? Or both?

    Thanks in advance again!
    Originally posted by kfurfie05
    Upload a copy of your last letter.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 16th Jul 17, 8:46 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    Hi all,

    I'll upload a copy of the letter to them and explain it's been ignored.

    Will update ASAP!

    Thanks to all again,

    Kayleigh
    • kfurfie05
    • By kfurfie05 16th Jul 17, 8:55 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    kfurfie05
    The BW Legal site is not uploading my document, regardless of format (typical) so I have emailed them with the attached document!
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