Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 3rd May 17, 9:49 AM
    • 38Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Tron1969
    PRA Group & MBNA Card Debt
    • #1
    • 3rd May 17, 9:49 AM
    PRA Group & MBNA Card Debt 3rd May 17 at 9:49 AM


    I have been on a DMP with Stepchange for about a year and everything has been going ok.


    One of the Debts is for Approx £16,000 with MBNA and they agreed to freeze interest and I am currently paying them back £110 a month.


    My MBNA card was transferred from a Santander card I would think about 20 years ago.


    Recently I received a letter from PRA Group saying they have taken over the Management of my Debt but MBNA are still the legal owners of it. They advised they would contact anyone acting on my behalf if I were in a plan. Currently Stepchange have not been advised of this and payments are continuing to MBNA.


    PRA group have started calling me and leaving messages for me to contact them (most recently they called on Bank holiday Monday)



    Has anyone had any experience/advice of PRA.




Page 1
  • National Debtline
    • #2
    • 3rd May 17, 10:11 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd May 17, 10:11 AM
    Hi Tron1969,


    You should start by seeing if Step Change are able to help in this situation and write to the PRA Group to confirm the details of the DMP and ask them to stop contacting you. If they cannot do this then you can write to the PRA Group, ask them to stop calling and to put all communication, in writing, to Step Change.

    Although your DMP is not legally binding and the PRA Group don't have to deal with Step Change, if the phone calls persist after you have outlined your preferred method of contact then you can complain about their conduct and argue it is harassing behaviour.


    Laura
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 3rd May 17, 12:23 PM
    • 12,652 Posts
    • 11,984 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #3
    • 3rd May 17, 12:23 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd May 17, 12:23 PM
    On a debt that age, get a CCA request banged in ASAP.

    Unlikly to have any enforceable paperwork after 20 years.

    Info here :

    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Information-about-your-agreement-under-the-Consumer-Credit-Act-%28sole-name%29.aspx
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 3rd May 17, 1:16 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    • #4
    • 3rd May 17, 1:16 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd May 17, 1:16 PM
    The debt has built up in last few years but the credit card was transferred to MBNA from Santander without me signing anything. Would that still be the case?
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 3rd May 17, 2:00 PM
    • 12,652 Posts
    • 11,984 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #5
    • 3rd May 17, 2:00 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd May 17, 2:00 PM
    The debt has built up in last few years but the credit card was transferred to MBNA from Santander without me signing anything. Would that still be the case?
    Originally posted by Tron1969
    But original contract was signed 20 odd years ago yes ?

    Do it !!
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • January2015
    • By January2015 3rd May 17, 4:25 PM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 4,746 Thanks
    January2015
    • #6
    • 3rd May 17, 4:25 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd May 17, 4:25 PM
    Earlier this year we settled an MBNA/PRA debt for 10% of the outstanding balance. They produced all the paperwork but the T&Cs were unenforceable. Definitely CCA this account - I think it highly likely it will be unenforceable as all MBNAs from that era were using the same T&Cs.
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    Xmas 2017 £1 p/day challenge No. 20 - £420/£730
    Make £10 p/day Feb £74.31, Mar £664.37 Apr £40
    • January2015
    • By January2015 3rd May 17, 4:26 PM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 4,746 Thanks
    January2015
    • #7
    • 3rd May 17, 4:26 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd May 17, 4:26 PM
    Also - when you send CCA request advise PRA that all communication regarding the account must be in writing and that you do not give them permission to contact you by telephone. Providing you respond to their communications they have to honour this request.
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    Xmas 2017 £1 p/day challenge No. 20 - £420/£730
    Make £10 p/day Feb £74.31, Mar £664.37 Apr £40
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 4th May 17, 9:32 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    • #8
    • 4th May 17, 9:32 AM
    • #8
    • 4th May 17, 9:32 AM
    But original contract was signed 20 odd years ago yes ?

    Do it !!
    Originally posted by sourcrates


    I never actually signed a contract, I opened bank account with Santander (think it was alliance & Leicester before they were taken over) the account had a credit card attached to it but then they discontinued this and transferred to MBNA. I think it was prior to 2000
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 4th May 17, 10:49 AM
    • 12,652 Posts
    • 11,984 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #9
    • 4th May 17, 10:49 AM
    • #9
    • 4th May 17, 10:49 AM
    I never actually signed a contract, I opened bank account with Santander (think it was alliance & Leicester before they were taken over) the account had a credit card attached to it but then they discontinued this and transferred to MBNA. I think it was prior to 2000
    Originally posted by Tron1969
    No brainer then ............
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 12th Jun 17, 3:57 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    I sent off a CCA request to PRA group and they returned the following, do I continue to pay them during this time as I am in a DMP with Stepchange. Also they have said they can not guarantee a timescale, is that correct?



    Thank you for your recent correspondence, in which you have requested a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of the account. We have contacted our original client to provide further information regarding this.

    As PRA Group UK Limited do not hold the information internally, we have held your account until our client is able to provide the documentation applied for.

    During this time you will receive no further letters or calls.

    Should you wish to speak to an agent regarding your correspondence, or if you wish to request further information regarding the hold on your account, please call us on 0800 877 2772 or email enquiries@pragroup.co.uk.

    We are unable to provide a definitive timescale as to how long the response may take, but assure you that all is being done to resolve this matter as soon as possible, and we will be in contact in due course to bring this matter to a conclusion.

    Yours sincerely,


    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 12th Jun 17, 5:39 PM
    • 12,652 Posts
    • 11,984 Thanks
    sourcrates
    I sent off a CCA request to PRA group and they returned the following, do I continue to pay them during this time as I am in a DMP with Stepchange. Also they have said they can not guarantee a timescale, is that correct?



    Thank you for your recent correspondence, in which you have requested a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of the account. We have contacted our original client to provide further information regarding this.

    As PRA Group UK Limited do not hold the information internally, we have held your account until our client is able to provide the documentation applied for.

    During this time you will receive no further letters or calls.

    Should you wish to speak to an agent regarding your correspondence, or if you wish to request further information regarding the hold on your account, please call us on 0800 877 2772 or email enquiries@pragroup.co.uk.

    We are unable to provide a definitive timescale as to how long the response may take, but assure you that all is being done to resolve this matter as soon as possible, and we will be in contact in due course to bring this matter to a conclusion.

    Yours sincerely,


    Originally posted by Tron1969
    It's up to you, the consumer credit act says you don't have to pay during this period.

    The choice is yours really.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 13th Jun 17, 9:31 AM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    It's up to you, the consumer credit act says you don't have to pay during this period.

    The choice is yours really.
    Originally posted by sourcrates


    Ok thanks for the reply. I suppose the difficulty being that I am in a DMP with stepchange. I think I may wait for their reply as I have a month before the next DMP payment is due


    Thanks again
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 30th Jun 17, 3:03 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    I have now got the following response from PRA who say they were acting on behalf of MBNA (but this reads as if they now own the debt??)


    What should I now do as they are still on my DMP, do I take them off it until they contact me again? what does this actually mean?


    You have advised us that you believe the debt is unenforceable, I have requested a copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) from the original vendor. We are currently unable to provide your agreement this means that we have classified your debt as currently “unenforceable”, which means that we were unable to take court action against you to recover the outstanding balance.

    Despite the debt being unenforceable, we are still legally entitled to:

    Contact you and ask you to repay what you owe
    Pass your details onto a third party debt collection agency
    Update your credit reference report (as appropriate)

    You should also be aware that the original creditor may be able to provide us with information in future, at which time we will class your debt as enforceable and take appropriate action where necessary (including but not limited to court action to recover the outstanding balance owed to us).

    In the meantime your account will remain on hold until we receive a response from the original vendor regarding your CCA
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 30th Jun 17, 3:10 PM
    • 12,652 Posts
    • 11,984 Thanks
    sourcrates
    I have now got the following response from PRA who say they were acting on behalf of MBNA (but this reads as if they now own the debt??)


    What should I now do as they are still on my DMP, do I take them off it until they contact me again? what does this actually mean?


    You have advised us that you believe the debt is unenforceable, I have requested a copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) from the original vendor. We are currently unable to provide your agreement this means that we have classified your debt as currently “unenforceable”, which means that we were unable to take court action against you to recover the outstanding balance.

    Despite the debt being unenforceable, we are still legally entitled to:

    Contact you and ask you to repay what you owe
    Pass your details onto a third party debt collection agency
    Update your credit reference report (as appropriate)

    You should also be aware that the original creditor may be able to provide us with information in future, at which time we will class your debt as enforceable and take appropriate action where necessary (including but not limited to court action to recover the outstanding balance owed to us).

    In the meantime your account will remain on hold until we receive a response from the original vendor regarding your CCA
    Originally posted by Tron1969
    Means what it says on the tin.

    Currently, they cant enforce the debt, as they dont hold a copy of your credit agreement.

    They have requested it from the original creditor, now its 50/50 if they will be able to find it, or not, to save hassle for now, i would continue to pay the debt, as its possible, they may find the paperwork, so for now carry on as you are, wait and see what they come back to you with.

    What you need is a letter stating they are unable to provide a copy of your agreement at all, anything else isn't good enough.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 30-06-2017 at 3:12 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 30th Jun 17, 3:20 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    Would they normally come back at a later date and confirm that they can not enforce it. How log would you suggest to wait before chasing them?


    Thanks for your comments too!
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 30th Jun 17, 4:27 PM
    • 12,652 Posts
    • 11,984 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Would they normally come back at a later date and confirm that they can not enforce it. How log would you suggest to wait before chasing them?


    Thanks for your comments too!
    Originally posted by Tron1969
    Its anyones guess with these things.

    Sometimes you never hear from them again, other times they produce the goods, there really is no way of knowing for sure what will happen.

    The time frame for complaints resolution is 8 weeks, so give them 8 weeks, if you've heard nothing by then, assume its unenforceable, and proceed on that assumption.

    Just bear in mind they may come back in a years time and say we`ve found your credit agreement, its not clear cut until they admit in writing they dont hold it.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Tron1969
    • By Tron1969 30th Jun 17, 5:23 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Tron1969
    are they able to add any interest in the meantime. Say if they come back in 2 years and I have stopped paying can they add interest to the defaulted debt?
    • January2015
    • By January2015 30th Jun 17, 5:45 PM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 4,746 Thanks
    January2015
    MBNA accounts that are pre April 2007 are iredeemably unenforceable.

    Take the account off your DMP and don't worry about it.

    More information on this can be found on the All About Debt website (AAD). Visit the forum and look up
    Forum Information
    Forum Announcements & Site Feedback
    Important Announcements
    Virgin (MBNA) Credit Card / PRA Group - Iredeemably Unenforceable
    I can't link to the AAD website (MSE block it for some reason).




    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    Xmas 2017 £1 p/day challenge No. 20 - £420/£730
    Make £10 p/day Feb £74.31, Mar £664.37 Apr £40
    • zenshi
    • By zenshi 30th Jun 17, 6:37 PM
    • 963 Posts
    • 1,966 Thanks
    zenshi
    MBNA accounts that are pre April 2007 are iredeemably unenforceable.

    Take the account off your DMP and don't worry about it.

    More information on this can be found on the All About Debt website (AAD). Visit the forum and look up
    Forum Information
    Forum Announcements & Site Feedback
    Important Announcements
    Virgin (MBNA) Credit Card / PRA Group - Iredeemably Unenforceable
    I can't link to the AAD website (MSE block it for some reason).




    Originally posted by January2015

    How so Jan? Can you give us brief? Will check the said site later. I have MBNA from 2002, requested CCA and recieved what looks like it should be
    LBM.....sometime in 2013 £27,056. 10 creditors
    Oct 17......£18,118.....7 creditors left 32% paid

    £26,200 on interest only part of mortgage (July 16)...will chip away £23,543
    £49,200 repayment mortgage ( July 16) £45,599
    • January2015
    • By January2015 30th Jun 17, 7:27 PM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 4,746 Thanks
    January2015
    In my case the provided a signature on an application form which was like a tear off page from a folded leaflet. In the middle section of the signature tear off page it stated

    "Before you sign the agreement you must read Section 11 in the terms and conditions provided. You agree that MBNA may vary the process (etc. etc. etc. ) described in condition 11.

    I only had that piece of paper to sign. They never provided T&Cs on the little flyer thing. I couldn't have agreed to condition 11 before signing - it was impossible.

    I assume this is why all pre 2007 MBNA are unenforceable - but I don't know for sure - I just know that AAD know they are unenforceable. They retain solicitors and have been to court over numbers CCA cases. I have no doubt what they say is fact.
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    Xmas 2017 £1 p/day challenge No. 20 - £420/£730
    Make £10 p/day Feb £74.31, Mar £664.37 Apr £40
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

987Posts Today

6,127Users online

Martin's Twitter