Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 28th Apr 17, 1:50 PM
    • 38Posts
    • 4Thanks
    lafferdog
    SIP Court case help
    • #1
    • 28th Apr 17, 1:50 PM
    SIP Court case help 28th Apr 17 at 1:50 PM
    Hi There,

    I am after some advice or help with a court case I have coming up in June with SIP in manchester.

    Quick overview of the case:
    Last summer I parked at one of their car parks and parked on some cross hatch markings, the markings were worn out to the point of being barley visible, I was in no way blocking anything or anyone in and I have seen cars on them before. There are no other markings in the car park, it is just a load of baron rubble.

    I got a ticket, which on the back said I could appeal, and if the appeal was rejected I could pay £60. So appealed and explained the above. A week or so later I received a letter saying I owed £100, I replied saying I had appealed and resent the appeal. Again this was ignored and a new fine of £150 was sent. At this point I wrote to say they had ignored my appeals and so I was going to ignore them.

    In January I was contacted by Gladstones solicitors who had taken on their case and they wanted £240. Explained everything to them and we are now going to court in June.

    I have no idea what to do with preparing for a court case. I have tried to get free legal help but not had any luck with that so hoping someone here might be able to help me form my case or let me know what I need to do as it would be a nightmare to lose based on anything technical that I don't understand.

    I have applied for mediation, and willing to pay the £60 that was the original fine, but I feel I shouldn't really have to pay anything due to the hassle this is causing. Will have to take a day off work too which is an expense.

    I feel like I have followed all the instructions they offered with the appeal of the ticket, they just seem to hike up the fine at every opportunity and harass and try and scare me to pay up.

    Thanks in advance for any help people can offer.
Page 3
    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 11th Jun 17, 9:47 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    Oh thank goodness, I was going by a previous post where I think you said the hearing was on 15th.

    So, don't help their case:





    What evidence have you got to submit with the WS? Photos of the unmarked/unsigned area? IMHO you need them urgently, and/or a video would be good.

    What about adding that there was no entrance sign, so there was nothing to tell you that the car park was 'managed' or restricted. And that you understand this is contrary to the Code of Practice.


    Have you already admitted that you were driving? I think you did but no time to keep looking back...
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I have photos of the hatched area that is worn out, and other areas of the carpark to show there are no markings anywhere else and it is just rubble. I could go and video tomorrow but it is closed and I think they have started building on it.

    I have the original ticket and highlighted the bit about appeals. And I have the ticket I bought that day, do I need to include these?

    Will add that there was no entrance sign as there wasnt, I am pretty sure I admitted I was driving as I say I returned to my car.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 17, 9:53 PM
    • 46,968 Posts
    • 60,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK. Yes you need to append your evidence, as you will have seen from all the examples you must have just gone and looked at in the NEWBIES thread post #2. They show you have to number your evidence and mention it in the WS.

    So as it was pay & display and you paid in good faith, say that. Add that.

    Change the bit I wrote so it doesn't say 'no restrictions' but certainly remove the times you go on about 'seeing faded hatched lines' but 'assuming' they were not in use. It looks bad, so don't say that.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 11th Jun 17, 9:54 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    Here is an updated version.

    I assert that I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all, for the following reasons:

    • I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, no. xxxx xxx. The Claim relates to an alleged debt arising from the vehicle having been parked on a poorly-marked parking area of Islington Wharf Car Park in Manchester, on xx xx xxxx.

    • I returned to my car to find a ticket issued. When I left the car I was unaware of any restrictions or terms for parking. Apart from a few very faded lines, there are no markings anywhere in the car park.
    I have attached photo evidence of the poorly marked hatched area and examples of the rest of the carpark to show there are no other markings.

    • There was no signage near or around the faded hatched area to make it clear that it was an area not to be parked on.

    • There was no entrance sign, so there was nothing to tell me that the car park was 'managed' or restricted. I understand this is contrary to the Code of Practice.

    • The ticket offered the opportunity to appeal which I did straight away with photos of the area in question. Around 10 days later I received a letter saying I now owed £100, and there was no acknowledgement of my appeal letter, so I wrote back to say I had appealed and resent the original appeal letter. On xxxxxx I received another letter from SIP saying I now owed £125, I resent the appeal as there was still no acknowledgement of it. I have attached a copy of the ticket issued and highlighted the appeals section.

    • On the 25th of January I received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors saying I then owed £250. This whole thing has caused a lot of stress and worry, as well as taken up much of my time including the day off work I will need to take to go to court.

    I believe the facts stated in this witness statement are true.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 17, 10:00 PM
    • 46,968 Posts
    • 60,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    When I left the car I was unaware of any restrictions or terms for parking.
    You need to spend more time on this. No rushing it. As I said, you can't say the above if it was pay & display, of course you were aware of some terms or you wouldn't have paid & displayed.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 11th Jun 17, 10:09 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    OK. Yes you need to append your evidence, as you will have seen from all the examples you must have just gone and looked at in the NEWBIES thread post #2. They show you have to number your evidence and mention it in the WS.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I have been searching through the threads in post 2 and cant seem to see any examples, do you have a link to one I can use as reference?

    I will remove the bit about restrictions and add in the fact I paid in good faith.
    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 11th Jun 17, 10:25 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    I have been doing some more reading and I am just getting more and more confused. I am going to sleep on it and read it through again tomorrow night, thats my last chance to get it right.

    This gave me some hope but still find it quite intimidating.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5650032&page=4
    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 12th Jun 17, 7:26 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    ok, so here is where I am up to, I think thats how to add in images? I am creating a neat pdf later and will print on A4 and send in a nice binded sleeve?

    Is there anything missing??

    I assert that I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all, for the following reasons:

    • I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, no. xxxx xxx. The Claim relates to an alleged debt arising from the vehicle having been parked on a poorly-marked parking area of Islington Wharf Car Park in Manchester, on xx xx xxxx.

    • I returned to my car to find a ticket issued. When I left the car I was unaware of any restrictions or terms for parking. Apart from a few very faded lines, there are no markings anywhere in the car park.
    I have attached photo evidence of the poorly marked hatched area and examples of the rest of the carpark to show there are no other markings (See Exhibit 1).

    • There was no signage near or around the faded hatched area to make it clear that it was an area not to be parked on.

    • I bought a ticket at the machine so paid for my parking in good faith,(See Exhibit 2).

    • The ticket offered the opportunity to appeal which I did straight away with photos of the area in question. Around 10 days later I received a letter saying I now owed £100, and there was no acknowledgement of my appeal letter, so I wrote back to say I had appealed and resent the original appeal letter. On xxxxxx I received another letter from SIP saying I now owed £125, I resent the appeal as there was still no acknowledgement of it. (See Exhibit 3).

    • On the 25th of January I received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors saying I then owed £250, I have tried to mediate and communicate with SIP and Gladstones, but they had forced the situation to end up in court.

    • This whole thing has caused a lot of stress and worry, as well as taken up much of my time including the day off work I will need to take to go to court.

    • I have also attached the correspondence letters between myself, SIP and Gladstones.

    I believe the facts stated in this witness statement are true.
    Last edited by lafferdog; 12-06-2017 at 9:30 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 17, 11:04 PM
    • 46,968 Posts
    • 60,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Looks OK as a Witness Statement. Just the facts, and some evidence. And you've done that.

    Show us Gladstones effort, when you get it!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 13th Jun 17, 5:57 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    Sorry one more question before I send.

    Do I send the court originals of the letters and ticket, or copies?

    Do I need to send £25, it isnt that clear in the court letter if I need to or not?

    Finally do I need to put a contents page at the beginning?

    I am thinking i will hand deliver to court at lunch tomorrow, at least I know it is then done.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 17, 6:04 PM
    • 46,968 Posts
    • 60,350 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Copies of documents. Take the originals on the day, plus proof of this WS 7 evidence scans being emailed to the other side, in case they pretend they didn't get it.

    Why on earth would you pay the Claimant's hearing fee for them?! You are not the Claimant.

    Finally do I need to put a contents page at the beginning?
    Ideally, yes, with page numbering to make the file easy for the Judge to follow.

    Claim number in the front, with the words 'Witness Statement and evidence from the Defendant'.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • lafferdog
    • By lafferdog 13th Jun 17, 7:46 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lafferdog
    Great stuff, and thanks so much for the time you have spent helping me out. Will update with any news or anything i get back from Gladstones.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,627Posts Today

8,635Users online

Martin's Twitter