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  • FIRST POST
    • scgf
    • By scgf 26th Apr 17, 3:30 PM
    • 351Posts
    • 130Thanks
    scgf
    Triodos Bank Current Account
    • #1
    • 26th Apr 17, 3:30 PM
    Triodos Bank Current Account 26th Apr 17 at 3:30 PM


    Current customers can register now before it launches to everyone, but it costs £3 a month and pays no interest on balances. I like the ethics of Triodos but not sure I'm willing to pay £3 each month and lose out on what other banks pay - I'm with the TSB currently. Thoughts anyone?
    Last edited by scgf; 26-04-2017 at 3:35 PM.
Page 2
    • stclair
    • By stclair 2nd May 17, 1:44 PM
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    stclair
    Those of us with long memories will recall much the same arguments being made about IceSave in 2006.....it was all covered under the Icelandic compensation scheme equivalent so "it's all fine".

    Well we all know exactly how that worked out don't we?
    For those on here that do not, when Icesave collapsed the Icelandic government basically said we are not paying - anyone: end of Story
    The UK government ended up stepping in voluntarily to refund Icesavers paid for by UK taxpayers.

    Now Icesave was marketed heavily in Holland and the UK.
    Interestingly at the same time the Dutch government seemed rather reluctant to do the same for its own citizens -and I cannot remember what happened to the Dutch hapless Icesave savers in the end.
    So for me anyway I'll think I will be giving a miss to even thinking the Dutch government might refund some foreign savers (ie in UK) if a similar event took place on one of their regulated banks.
    Even if they did not actually refuse outright they could always make it awkward by say requiring UK savers to attend in person in Holland with ID papers to claim a refund.

    Beware also that any disputes may have to be dealt with by the Dutch complaint system (whatever that is) and not by our own Financial ombudsman facilities.
    So good luck with that in making a complaint should you need to.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    Complaints will be dealt with by the FOS:

    https://www.triodos.co.uk/downloads/at-how-to-complain.pdf?audience=About%20Triodos
    I Work For the RBS Group
    However Any Opinion Given On MSE Is Strictly My Own
    • isasmurf
    • By isasmurf 2nd May 17, 1:51 PM
    • 1,719 Posts
    • 738 Thanks
    isasmurf
    Those of us with long memories will recall much the same arguments being made about IceSave in 2006.....it was all covered under the Icelandic compensation scheme equivalent so "it's all fine".

    Well we all know exactly how that worked out don't we?
    For those on here that do not, when Icesave collapsed the Icelandic government basically said we are not paying - anyone: end of Story
    The UK government ended up stepping in voluntarily to refund Icesavers paid for by UK taxpayers.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    Icesave was slightly different in that it was part FSCS protected. As the Icelandic scheme guaranteed less than the UK level of protection, it had dual protection under the Icelandic scheme to £16,000 and topped up to the UK level of protection of £50,000 by the FSCS.
    • colsten
    • By colsten 2nd May 17, 9:58 PM
    • 8,717 Posts
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    colsten
    Those of us with long memories will recall much the same arguments being made about IceSave in 2006.....it was all covered under the Icelandic compensation scheme equivalent so "it's all fine".
    Originally posted by Uxb
    Exactly! People who have never had to claim under a compensation scheme have generally very little idea how it works in practice, and what anxieties a claim can create.

    Complaints will be dealt with by the FOS:
    Originally posted by stclair
    That is irrelevant. The FOS has no powers over a foreign compensation scheme. In fact, they have none over the FSCS, either.

    Icesave was slightly different in that it was part FSCS protected. As the Icelandic scheme guaranteed less than the UK level of protection, it had dual protection under the Icelandic scheme to £16,000 and topped up to the UK level of protection of £50,000 by the FSCS.
    Originally posted by isasmurf
    That didn't stop the Icelandic protection scheme to simply ignore any liability. Whilst we all got our money back (from the FSCS, on instructions by the Chancellor), it took the UK the best part of a decade to actually recover monies from the Icelandic Government.
    • stclair
    • By stclair 2nd May 17, 10:13 PM
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    stclair
    Exactly! People who have never had to claim under a compensation scheme have generally very little idea how it works in practice, and what anxieties a claim can create.

    That is irrelevant. The FOS has no powers over a foreign compensation scheme. In fact, they have none over the FSCS, either.

    That didn't stop the Icelandic protection scheme to simply ignore any liability. Whilst we all got our money back (from the FSCS, on instructions by the Chancellor), it took the UK the best part of a decade to actually recover monies from the Icelandic Government.
    Originally posted by colsten
    I think you may need to reread the thread. A previous poster stated the FOS wouldn't deal with complaints and it's clear that they will be the link previously provided.

    They won't be covered by the UK compensation scheme but UK customers will be covered under the Dutch equivient as previously stated.

    I clearly don't get what you don't understand or what the problems is? If I had x amount of money and they went bust I would be compensated for a similar amount by the dutch compensation scheme. As they are a Dutch organisation .
    I Work For the RBS Group
    However Any Opinion Given On MSE Is Strictly My Own
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 3rd May 17, 11:38 AM
    • 5,466 Posts
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    eskbanker
    They won't be covered by the UK compensation scheme but UK customers will be covered under the Dutch equivient as previously stated.

    I clearly don't get what you don't understand or what the problems is? If I had x amount of money and they went bust I would be compensated for a similar amount by the dutch compensation scheme. As they are a Dutch organisation .
    Originally posted by stclair
    colsten's issue is with the practical realities of reclaiming from a non-UK compensation scheme, see http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72490630#post72490630
    • colsten
    • By colsten 4th May 17, 9:32 AM
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    colsten
    I think you may need to reread the thread. A previous poster stated the FOS wouldn't deal with complaints and it's clear that they will be the link previously provided.

    They won't be covered by the UK compensation scheme but UK customers will be covered under the Dutch equivient as previously stated.

    I clearly don't get what you don't understand or what the problems is? If I had x amount of money and they went bust I would be compensated for a similar amount by the dutch compensation scheme. As they are a Dutch organisation .
    Originally posted by stclair
    Please will you stop saying that the Dutch compensation scheme gives UK residents the same protection as FSCS. It does not. It is very clear from your comments that you only have theoretical knowledge about having to use a compensation scheme, and a foreign one at that. I, on the other hand, have first hand experience of both. I am not easily intimidated by complexities of the personal finance world, which is why don't believe bank employees, and especially RBS ones, when they say it will all be alright.

    People who choose to put their money into a bank that is not covered by FSCS are accepting a higher risk of losing their money because the foreign scheme is not subject to UK jurisdiction, and individuals couldn't afford to bring a court case to a foreign court. Quite apart from the inherent risks of relying on a non-FSCS protection scheme, the uncertainties created by Brexit add a further layer of complexity.
    • Stuart_W
    • By Stuart_W 4th May 17, 11:36 AM
    • 1,366 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    Stuart_W
    If they really wanted to be a challenger current account provider, you have to wonder why they don't apply for a UK banking licence and then with it come under the FSCS and UK regulatory system.

    This will remain a niche product for a very small niche market. The boss was on Moneybox at the weekend thrilled to bits that they had 5,000 pre-register interest after the first week - showing their niche market small ambitions. Sustainable for Triodos means remaining small. No where near the size of the number of Co-op customers.

    If they'd had the resources to become UK registered and sort out cash handling a bit better, and work out a way to not charge £36 a year, and join the current account switching service then a huge number of Co-op customers would have walked right in with minimal persuasion, I'm sure. (They would, however, probably also go bust as in the whole scheme of things there isn't that much money to be made with current accounts unless you can acquire decent scale).

    The Co-op is constantly rubbished for having majority "hedge fund" owners, or in other words private owners of shares who's intention of ownership is to make money (although that hasn't worked to well for them at the moment). Triodos is also privately owned by shareholders. No one seems to mind that.
    Last edited by Stuart_W; 04-05-2017 at 11:42 AM.
    • stclair
    • By stclair 4th May 17, 2:26 PM
    • 6,372 Posts
    • 3,390 Thanks
    stclair
    Please will you stop saying that the Dutch compensation scheme gives UK residents the same protection as FSCS. It does not. It is very clear from your comments that you only have theoretical knowledge about having to use a compensation scheme, and a foreign one at that. I, on the other hand, have first hand experience of both. I am not easily intimidated by complexities of the personal finance world, which is why don't believe bank employees, and especially RBS ones, when they say it will all be alright.

    People who choose to put their money into a bank that is not covered by FSCS are accepting a higher risk of losing their money because the foreign scheme is not subject to UK jurisdiction, and individuals couldn't afford to bring a court case to a foreign court. Quite apart from the inherent risks of relying on a non-FSCS protection scheme, the uncertainties created by Brexit add a further layer of complexity.
    Originally posted by colsten
    I'm not saying it's the same I'm just saying you'll be able to claim compensation to a similar value as the UK scheme should it go tits up:

    Triodos Bank is covered by the Dutch deposit guarantee scheme.
    All banks in the Netherlands licensed by De Nederlandsche Bank (DNB, the Dutch Central Bank) participate in the Dutch Deposit Guarantee Scheme.

    Triodos Bank in the UK is part of Triodos Bank NV which is based in the Netherlands and has a banking licence from DNB. Because we are part of Triodos Bank NV, our UK depositors are covered by the Dutch deposit guarantee scheme, rather than being covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) in the UK.


    What is the limit of cover provided by the deposit guarantee scheme?
    The deposit guarantee scheme guarantees up to €100,000 per person. The scheme applies per person per licensed bank, regardless of the number of accounts that they hold.
    This limit applies to the total of any deposits you have with all branches of Triodos Bank.

    For joint accounts held in the names of two people, both account holders can claim compensation up to €100,000 each. A balance of €200,000 held in a joint account is therefore fully covered.

    100,000 Euro equals = 84742.15 British Pound

    https://www.triodos.co.uk/en/about-triodos/important-information/deposit-guarantee-scheme/

    There words not mine...
    Last edited by stclair; 04-05-2017 at 2:31 PM.
    I Work For the RBS Group
    However Any Opinion Given On MSE Is Strictly My Own
    • badger09
    • By badger09 4th May 17, 3:16 PM
    • 5,120 Posts
    • 4,336 Thanks
    badger09
    I'm not saying it's the same I'm just saying you'll be able to claim compensation to a similar value as the UK scheme should it go tits up:

    Triodos Bank is covered by the Dutch deposit guarantee scheme.
    All banks in the Netherlands licensed by De Nederlandsche Bank (DNB, the Dutch Central Bank) participate in the Dutch Deposit Guarantee Scheme.



    There words not mine...
    Originally posted by stclair
    colsten is well aware of that guarantee, as are many of us who regularly post on here.

    However, as we also know from experience, the guarantee may turn out to be no guarantee after all, as was the case with the Icelandic scheme.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 4th May 17, 5:00 PM
    • 2,067 Posts
    • 2,849 Thanks
    EachPenny
    People who choose to put their money into a bank that is not covered by FSCS are accepting a higher risk of losing their money because the foreign scheme is not subject to UK jurisdiction, and individuals couldn't afford to bring a court case to a foreign court. Quite apart from the inherent risks of relying on a non-FSCS protection scheme, the uncertainties created by Brexit add a further layer of complexity.
    Originally posted by colsten
    Vergeet niet uw aanvraag om terugbetaling of juridische stappen zullen waarschijnlijk in het Nederlands moeten worden gedaan, althans gedeeltelijk. Google vertalen is geweldig, maar gaat alleen zo ver.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 3rd Jul 17, 3:39 PM
    • 3,097 Posts
    • 796 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Personally, I'm not as paranoid as MSE when it comes to the guarantee schemes of other countries. If we are using the rather infantile excuse that Iceland defaulted then so can other countries then the U.K. has to be included in "other countries": Not really all that constructive in attracting foreign investors. A case of "Iceland defaulted then so can the U.K."?

    Anyway on a more constructive note, Triodos are still keeping the final details of their current account secret stating that those final details will be provided when an account is offered. So if anyone has those details please post it. Ok, ok I'm impatient.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 03-07-2017 at 3:46 PM.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 12th Jul 17, 2:53 PM
    • 1,230 Posts
    • 3,621 Thanks
    Zanderman
    Just had my code to apply...

    And the £3 fee doesn't apply yet, as they say the account is only in an early release form (whatever that means). Their wording is
    Because some features and services are limited for a short while in this early release period, we won’t be charging you the monthly £3 account fee until your account is updated to the full version. When this happens you won’t need to do anything, we will simply notify you.

    By becoming an early adopter, you’ll be among the very first to receive your eco-friendly Triodos Debit Mastercard made from natural plastic — you’ll be able to use this for any purchases or at ATMs. You’ll also have access to internet banking and the opportunity to conveniently manage your money using our new mobile banking app.

    At this stage, the account is not to be used as your main bank account – salary, mortgages, rent, bills and any other regular payments will need to be kept with your existing current account. But don’t worry, we will notify you when and how you can switch these over using the Current Account Switch Service. For now, the account is intended more for one-off purchases when shopping or going out, alongside any ad hoc internet banking payments.
    Which all seems a bit odd... haven't quite decided whether to give it a try or not.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 12th Jul 17, 5:44 PM
    • 1,230 Posts
    • 3,621 Thanks
    Zanderman
    Anyway on a more constructive note, Triodos are still keeping the final details of their current account secret stating that those final details will be provided when an account is offered. So if anyone has those details please post it. Ok, ok I'm impatient.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Does this help?

    https://www.triodos.co.uk/en/personal/current-account/triodos-current-account/key-features/
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 12th Jul 17, 7:01 PM
    • 3,898 Posts
    • 4,224 Thanks
    robatwork
    I know the main discussion is a couple of months old, but anyone who really believes ANY bank is ethical needs their bumps feeling.

    I guess if it makes you feel better about yourself, go right ahead. Just don't be under illusions that this one is run by people with only purity in their hearts.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 12th Jul 17, 7:37 PM
    • 5,466 Posts
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    eskbanker
    I know the main discussion is a couple of months old, but anyone who really believes ANY bank is ethical needs their bumps feeling.

    I guess if it makes you feel better about yourself, go right ahead. Just don't be under illusions that this one is run by people with only purity in their hearts.
    Originally posted by robatwork
    I'm as cynical as anyone about 'ethical banking' but to be fair my understanding is that the concept is rather broader than claiming that their staff are all inherently altruistic!

    I'd always hesitate to cite Wikipedia as a reliable data source but in this case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_banking covers a reasonable amount of ground as a discussion piece, including the awkward truth that "Claiming to be an "ethical" bank requires an objective way to determine what is ethical" while recognising that:
    Other areas, such as fair trade, have comprehensive codes and regulations to which all industries that wish to be certified as fair trade must adhere. Ethical banking has not developed to this point; because of this it is difficult to create a concrete definition distinguishing exactly what it is that sets an ethical bank apart from conventional banks
    or to put it another way, any bank can claim to be ethical without needing to worry about niceties like having to comply with defined standards!
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 12th Jul 17, 11:04 PM
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    • 796 Thanks
    Anthorn

    Not really but thanks for the effort.

    My initial concern is in the area of credits to the account / making deposits to the account.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but all deposits to Triodos savings accounts have to be electronic (i.e. faster payments, bacs) and the savings accounts are described as "online only accounts". The new current account has that same description of "online only account". So therefore what about cheque deposits which are currently not allowed in the savings accounts? More specifically, third party cheques payable to the account holder. In that case if cheque deposits are not allowed then an additional bank account would be needed by Triodos current account holders just to process those cheques.

    I'm starting to warm to the idea of the Triodos Current Account notwithstanding the £3 monthly account fee. But with regular cheques in Euro and USD incoming the account may be far from a done deal.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 13th Jul 17, 12:12 AM
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    • 5,269 Thanks
    eskbanker
    So therefore what about cheque deposits which are currently not allowed in the savings accounts? More specifically, third party cheques payable to the account holder. In that case if cheque deposits are not allowed then an additional bank account would be needed by Triodos current account holders just to process those cheques.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    This is clarified in various documents published on their website - https://www.triodos.co.uk/downloads/pca-what-you-need-to-know.pdf includes "Pay in cheques by sending them to us in the post" as a feature and this is reiterated in clause 14.1 of the account Ts & Cs, which confirms that one of the options for paying into their current account is:
    By sending a cheque in the post with a paying-in slip or letter using our Freepost address (Freepost TRIODOS BANK).
    No cash pay-ins though if that's important to any prospective account-holders....
    • pvt
    • By pvt 13th Jul 17, 9:00 AM
    • 1,342 Posts
    • 1,069 Thanks
    pvt
    Eco-friendly Triodos Debit Mastercard with contactless and chip-and-pin technologies and ATM access
    ROFLMAO

    Just what I've been looking for - been increasingly concerned about the greenhouse gases my "ordinary" debit cards are belching out...
    Optimists see a glass half full
    Pessimists see a glass half empty
    Engineers just see a glass twice the size it needed to be
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 3rd Aug 17, 8:36 AM
    • 3,097 Posts
    • 796 Thanks
    Anthorn
    ROFLMAO

    Just what I've been looking for - been increasingly concerned about the greenhouse gases my "ordinary" debit cards are belching out...
    Originally posted by pvt
    In fact Triodos Bank's ethical principles go far deeper than the eco-friendly debit card. It was founded under anthroposophical principles. As Wikipedia explains, "The bank was founded as an anthroposophical initiative. The bank's statutes were committed to anthroposophical principles until 1999, but in later years, the bank has broadened its appeal."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triodos_Bank

    The question of how much of its anthroposophical founding principles remains. However there may be those who would pay £3 per month per account for the merest hint of it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy
    • Shaunus4
    • By Shaunus4 4th Sep 17, 7:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shaunus4
    In fact Triodos Bank's ethical principles go far deeper than the eco-friendly debit card. It was founded under anthroposophical principles. As Wikipedia explains, "The bank was founded as an anthroposophical initiative. The bank's statutes were committed to anthroposophical principles until 1999, but in later years, the bank has broadened its appeal."

    The question of how much of its anthroposophical founding principles remains. However there may be those who would pay £3 per month per account for the merest hint of it.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    I'm another signed up to their early release of the Triodos current account. I've had one of their cards for a couple of months now (note: Mastercard, not Visa) and have been using it widely, without problems.

    I appreciate the note about an overseas guarantee on our funds possibly being more risky - that seems a fair point, and one I hadn't considered.

    However, I'm still delighted to be with Triodos, due to their ethics. What many of the posters here seem not to realise is how radically transparent they are in their investments. They literally publish details of everything and everyone they invest in, in an accessible way (google "Triodos: Know where your money goes" for the dedicated site through which they do this). So it's easy to check whether their ethics match yours.

    Having realised belatedly just how many truly uncontroversially awful things my previous mainstream bank was investing in - just google it for your bank - I'm more than happy to pay £3/month to stop supporting such. I consider far better bang for my buck in terms of creating the world I want to live in than paying that money to a charity.

    Couldn't be happier so far - it's great to support their challenge to the murky way things are currently done - and my partner is really keen to join too, once they open up the current account to more applicants.
    Last edited by Shaunus4; 04-09-2017 at 7:28 PM. Reason: clarity
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