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  • FIRST POST
    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 24th Apr 17, 7:37 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    madcazza
    What next?, letter from Gladstones
    • #1
    • 24th Apr 17, 7:37 PM
    What next?, letter from Gladstones 24th Apr 17 at 7:37 PM
    attended a long awaited GP appointment on 29th December, parked in the same road that I had parked many times previously came out to a parking charge notice, from PCM , stating that I had parked in a restricted area, looked around and across the road I could see a sign high on a post, which was too small to read, even stood directly under it.
    Followed all the MSE forum advice for my response, which was had the sign been visible I would have not parked there and as I have parked there on previous occasions, there was no clear signs indicating that parking restrictions were now in place, which they rejected.
    Appealed to IAS, who rejected my appeal on the grounds that I had parked outside a marked bay and therefore in breach of displayed terms, so nothing relevant to my appeal of their case which was that I had parked in the road.
    had the expected debt collectors letter and threats, today received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors , saying their client may instruct them to take legal action and they invite me to make payment or to confirm my proposals in respect of the debt.
    Sorry if that's a bit long winded, I've tried reading the pinned posts and am just getting confused on my next step, do I respond, if so which template? or wait for them and their next step?
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Apr 17, 7:46 PM
    • 6,442 Posts
    • 8,242 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 24th Apr 17, 7:46 PM
    • #2
    • 24th Apr 17, 7:46 PM
    attended a long awaited GP appointment on 29th December, parked in the same road that I had parked many times previously came out to a parking charge notice, from PCM , stating that I had parked in a restricted area, looked around and across the road I could see a sign high on a post, which was too small to read, even stood directly under it.
    Followed all the MSE forum advice for my response, which was had the sign been visible I would have not parked there and as I have parked there on previous occasions, there was no clear signs indicating that parking restrictions were now in place, which they rejected.
    Appealed to IAS, who rejected my appeal on the grounds that I had parked outside a marked bay and therefore in breach of displayed terms, so nothing relevant to my appeal of their case which was that I had parked in the road.
    had the expected debt collectors letter and threats, today received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors , saying their client may instruct them to take legal action and they invite me to make payment or to confirm my proposals in respect of the debt.
    Sorry if that's a bit long winded, I've tried reading the pinned posts and am just getting confused on my next step, do I respond, if so which template? or wait for them and their next step?
    Originally posted by madcazza
    The well known Gladstones SCAM .... THEY OWN AND RUN THE IPC/IAS

    Been reported to the government many times to no avail.

    Right now, you are in a good position to have a serious word in the shell like ears of your MP ..... I mean will you vote for him/her or not ???
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Apr 17, 7:55 PM
    • 51,635 Posts
    • 65,296 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 24th Apr 17, 7:55 PM
    • #3
    • 24th Apr 17, 7:55 PM
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72449222#post72449222

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72446332#post72446332

    Searching the forum is so much better and quicker than asking on a thread. These debt collector 'Gladstones' letters are arriving like tedious old buses.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 27-04-2017 at 8:45 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 19th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    • #4
    • 19th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
    County court Claim received
    • #4
    • 19th Oct 17, 9:30 AM
    I have now received a count court claim, I got the letter before claim at the end of last month whilst my partner was seriously ill in hospital and I missed the opportunity to reply, but I am fighting this all the way.
    I have followed instructions and acknowledge the claim on line, now will work on the evidence and my defence.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Oct 17, 10:21 AM
    • 15,853 Posts
    • 24,571 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 19th Oct 17, 10:21 AM
    • #5
    • 19th Oct 17, 10:21 AM
    Don’t miss the deadline for submitting your defence or Gladstones will pounce immediately for a default judgment.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 19th Oct 17, 3:45 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    • #6
    • 19th Oct 17, 3:45 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Oct 17, 3:45 PM
    drafted my defence , struggling to word it, help please or link the to a template
    In the County Court Business Centre
    Between:
    Parking Control Management (UK) Limited
    V
    xxxxxxxx


    Claim Number: xxxxx
    I, xxxxxx, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017). As an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    2. The signage at the entrance to this road does not comply with the IPC code of practise
    a) PART B: section 2 paragraph 2.1
    b) Part E: Schedule 1


    any input would be helpful
    • Redx
    • By Redx 19th Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    • 16,865 Posts
    • 20,943 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 19th Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Oct 17, 4:01 PM
    just put UKCPM GLADSTONES DEFENCE into the drop down forum search box and plenty of threads come up

    like this recent one

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5725515

    adapt it to suit
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 17, 8:44 PM
    • 51,635 Posts
    • 65,296 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 19th Oct 17, 8:44 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Oct 17, 8:44 PM
    drafted my defence , struggling to word it, help please or link the to a template
    In the County Court Business Centre
    Between:
    Parking Control Management (UK) Limited
    V
    xxxxxxxx


    Claim Number: xxxxx
    I, xxxxxx, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017). As an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    2. The signage at the entrance to this road does not comply with the IPC code of practise
    a) PART B: section 2 paragraph 2.1
    b) Part E: Schedule 1


    any input would be helpful
    Originally posted by madcazza
    Absolutely NO. Far too short.

    Review the advice & links you've been given & the examples in the NEWBIES thread.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 23rd Oct 17, 12:07 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 17, 12:07 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 17, 12:07 PM
    second attempt
    .
    1. I am the defendant, -------------

    2. I deny any liability to the Claimant whatsoever on the following basis:

    Insufficient Signage.

    I. The PCN was issued on a road where I had parked on many previous occasions, there was not on this occasion nor previous occasions any notices that this is a private road.
    II. I found a sign after I found the PCN on my vehicle which was positioned approximately 2 meters from the ground and of a size that was impossible to read, and it would be reasonable to assume from the location and position that the sign itself is making reference to the building site behind, rather than the road which is not marked as private. This sign is too high and the text too small for a driver to see whilst in the vehicle, meaning it is not obvious to the motorist.

    I refer to the IPC Code of Practice, Part E, Entrance signs should
    i. Make it clear that the Motorist is entering Private Land
    ii. Signs should be obvious to the Motorist.
    iii. Text should be of a such a size and in a font that can be easily readable by the motorist.
    The sign in question did not meet any of the above criteria as evidenced in
    Exhibit 1: My own photograph of the sign, location and position
    Exhibit 1a: Photographs supplied Parking Control Management (UK)Ltd of the sign, location and position.


    3.The IAS is not considered an independent appeals system due to the Assessors' names remaining secret and well-publicised concerns over a conflict of interest. The IAS is a trading name of the IPC who are owned by the same people as the Claimant's Solicitors, Gladstones, who are now bringing this claim. Given this, I do not accept its dismissal of my appeal, as the rejection was not based on my appeal or on any facts related to the alleged contravention.

    a) The Prima Facia case of the “The Operator” was minimal.
    b) The photographic evidence supplier to the IAS assessor by “The Operator”
    i) Prove my appeal that the sign at the entrance to the road is unreadable.
    ii) Most are irrelevant to the actual case, as there are no marked bays in the location that I parked.

    c) I am not willing to accept the decision of the IAS adjudicator who dismissed the appeal, for the reasons stated above.





    4. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017). As an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 23rd Oct 17, 12:39 PM
    • 7,409 Posts
    • 6,455 Thanks
    The Deep
    They would struggle if they took this to court imo, signs form the basis of a contract. However, many timid folk fold at the sight of a letter from a solicitor threatening court. Clear signage is a sine qua non, read this

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/motorist-wins-18-month-ticket-battle-870812

    I believe ther is also a transcript on t'net
    Last edited by The Deep; 23-10-2017 at 12:42 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 23rd Oct 17, 1:12 PM
    • 1,806 Posts
    • 3,186 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Could we have the location to check the signs there. High signs and small print as PCM's normal scam.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Oct 17, 1:52 PM
    • 1,136 Posts
    • 1,159 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Not just signage
    Standing, amount is a penalty, MASSIVE preamble section about poor particulrars of claim, etc.
    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 23rd Oct 17, 2:43 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    Could we have the location to check the signs there. High signs and small print as PCM's normal scam.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    its a private road, didn't know this until I got the ticket , only had parking management in place since November 16 , nothing shows on google maps as the sign is new, trying to work out how to upload photos on here
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 23rd Oct 17, 7:10 PM
    • 15,853 Posts
    • 24,571 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    trying to work out how to upload photos on here
    Host on tiny pic, or Dropbox, copy URL, paste into reply box here, but change http to hxxp and a regular will convert.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 25th Oct 17, 2:29 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    defence and evidence pics
    A. It is acknowledged that the defendant, xxx, residing at xxx is the registered keeper of vehicle.
    B. In order to issue parking charges, and to pursue alleged unpaid charges via litigation, the Claimant is required to have the written authority of the landowner, on whose behalf they are acting as an agent. No evidence of such authority has been supplied by the Claimant or their legal representatives, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of same, in the form of an unredacted and contemporaneous contract, or chain of authority, from the landowner to the Claimant.
    I am yet to have knowledge of all documents provided to the court in support of the application.
    Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant (if any debt exists, which is denied) would be the landowner. Strict proof is required that there is a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to Parking Control Management(UK) Ltd, and no proof has been provided.

    C. The claim itself is vague and lacks pertinent information as to the grounds for the claimant’s case. The particulars of claim fail to meet CPR16.4 and PD16 7.3-7.5 and merely provide a date, and an "amount" consisting of a completely unsubstantiated and inflated three-figure sum, The claim also states "parking charges /damages and indemnity costs if applicable" which gives no indication of on what basis the claim is brought, for example whether this charge is founded upon an allegation of trespass or 'breach of contract' or contractual 'unpaid fees'.
    Because of this, I have had to cover all eventualities in defending such a 'cut & paste' claim which has caused significant distress and has denied me a fair chance to defend this claim in an informed way.
    Therefore, as an unrepresented litigant-in-person I respectfully ask that I be permitted to amend and or supplement this interim defence as may be required following a fuller disclosure of the Claimant's case.

    D. In the pre court stage the Claimant’s solicitor has failed to provide me with the necessary information in order to defend myself against the alleged debt.
    They did not send me a Letter before Action that complied with the Practice direction on pre-action conduct. The Letter before Action can be seen to miss the following information
    a) A clear summary of facts on which the claim is based.
    b) A list of the relevant documents on which your client intends to rely.
    c) How the “charge amount” of 160 pounds has been calculated and justified.
    E.
    F. The alleged debt as described in the claim are unenforceable penalties, being just the sort of unconscionable charges exposed as offending against the penalty rule, in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.
    This case can be easily distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes.
    Charges cannot exist merely to punish drivers. This claimant has failed to show any comparable 'legitimate interest' to save their charge from Lord Dunedin's four tests for a penalty, which the Supreme Court Judges found was still adequate in less complex cases, such as this allegation.

    G. It is strongly denied that there was any 'relevant contract' relating to any single parking event due to the following

    Insufficient Signage.

    i) The PCN was issued on a road where I had parked on many previous occasions, there was not on this occasion nor previous occasions any notices that this is a private road.
    ii) I found a sign after I found the PCN on my vehicle which was positioned approximately 2 meters from the ground and of a size that was impossible to read, and it would be reasonable to assume from the location and position that the sign itself is making reference to the building site behind, rather than the road which is not marked as private. This sign is too high and the text too small for a driver to see whilst in the vehicle, meaning it is not obvious to the motorist.

    I refer to the IPC Code of Practice, Part E, Entrance signs should
    i. Make it clear that the Motorist is entering Private Land
    ii. Signs should be obvious to the Motorist.
    iii. Text should be of a such a size and in a font that can be easily readable by the motorist.
    The sign in question did not meet any of the above criteria as evidenced in
    Exhibit 1: My own photograph of the sign, location and position
    Exhibit 1a: Photographs supplied previously by Parking Control Management (UK)Ltd of the sign, location and position.
    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 25th Oct 17, 2:53 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    Host on tiny pic, or Dropbox, copy URL, paste into reply box here, but change http to hxxp and a regular will convert.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    nope, still wont let me post links
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 25th Oct 17, 4:06 PM
    • 4,717 Posts
    • 3,042 Thanks
    KeithP
    nope, still wont let me post links
    Originally posted by madcazza
    Of course it will.

    Like this person did:
    .
    • madcazza
    • By madcazza 5th Dec 17, 9:38 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    madcazza
    Directions Questionaire
    After filing my defence, about a month ago, I have now received further correspondence from Gladstones, a blank directions questionnaire and a special direction request to have the case considered on paperwork without a hearing.
    Today I received my directions questionnaire from the court, apart from filling it in and sending it back, what do I do now?
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 5th Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • 1,740 Posts
    • 2,837 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    nothing. Ignore the Gladstones letter, fill in your DQ and send it in to the court and a copy to Gladstones. Make it clear you do not consent to the matter being dealt with on the papers and that you want a hearing.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
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