Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • cogsy1976
    • By cogsy1976 20th Apr 17, 3:30 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 2Thanks
    cogsy1976
    Car not as described
    • #1
    • 20th Apr 17, 3:30 PM
    Car not as described 20th Apr 17 at 3:30 PM
    Ok, this is a fairly long post so please bear with! but I bought a car from a trader 2 months or so ago, had issue pretty much straightaway with car bellowing out smoke every now and again.

    Long story short I took to BMW (off my own back to look at, purely because when car went back to have window switch fitted I was without the car for a week!) we found car had been remapped, I got them to unmap the car which has stopped the smoke issue.

    I am still getting faults come up on my code reader (which dont affect the car by the way) and I want to return the car. Trader wants to have the car back to inspect and repair. Now Im 99.9% certain that the DPF (diesel particulate filter) was probably removed when it was remapped but I cant prove this although the codes that are coming up on my reader point to this, and from an MOT point of view its just a visual inspection and as long as its there then its ok.

    However, I would never of bought the car if I had known it had been remapped, the car has done 96k and therefore the extra power on a high mileage car is not good for it at all (in the future) I also found out when car was at BMW that car had non-standard suspension fitted ie. it had been lowered.

    Where do I stand on this? I am currently going through the Capital One disputes team (I paid part of the deposit on my credit card)for the vehicle issues regarding the codes.

    Basically I want my money back and to give the car back, do I have a good case of getting this sorted with the fact that I was not advised by it being remapped and lowered? I have kept a copy of the advert as well which proves this.

    Thanks for any advice
Page 1
    • Johnmk1
    • By Johnmk1 20th Apr 17, 3:50 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Johnmk1
    • #2
    • 20th Apr 17, 3:50 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Apr 17, 3:50 PM
    Not sure if this is always the case but I had the exact same problem with a ford I bought from a dealer and had nothing but problems so my mrs rant them up and demanded a full refund or she would be contacting the office of fair trading as the car wasn't as described, after a few calls I got the whole lot refunded, give it a go you got nothing to lose
    • rob7475
    • By rob7475 20th Apr 17, 4:17 PM
    • 296 Posts
    • 182 Thanks
    rob7475
    • #3
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:17 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:17 PM
    How old is the car?

    What's not as described about the car - did the advert specifically state that the car was factory standard spec. with no modifications? Surely, you spotted that it had been lowered when you went to view it? The remap - not sure how you'd expect the dealer to spot this - they've offered to have the car back to inspect it. If they offer to put it back to a default mapping, there's not a lot you can do really.
    • cogsy1976
    • By cogsy1976 20th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    cogsy1976
    • #4
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:29 PM
    The car is 6 years old, no how would you know its been lowered? one minute you state that garage wouldnt know about remap but then you say I should know about it being lowered. Double standards there I think lol

    Well they can surely, as it is not as described. My point is I have bought a car that I wouldnt of bought if I had known the full facts about it. The remap has increased the power of the carand therefore would of placed undue stress on engine and gearbox than it would as standard.
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 20th Apr 17, 4:33 PM
    • 2,441 Posts
    • 1,626 Thanks
    EssexExile
    • #5
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:33 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:33 PM
    how would you know its been lowered?
    Originally posted by cogsy1976
    Look at it, it will be lower.
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • cogsy1976
    • By cogsy1976 20th Apr 17, 4:44 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    cogsy1976
    • #6
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:44 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:44 PM
    Lower than? Its an MSport which has low suspension anyway.

    Not all lowering springs slam the wheels into the arches.....
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 20th Apr 17, 4:59 PM
    • 3,179 Posts
    • 3,440 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #7
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:59 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Apr 17, 4:59 PM
    OP's previous thread about the same vehicle.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5622479
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 20th Apr 17, 5:56 PM
    • 4,142 Posts
    • 3,627 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    • #8
    • 20th Apr 17, 5:56 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Apr 17, 5:56 PM
    How old is the car?

    What's not as described about the car - did the advert specifically state that the car was factory standard spec. with no modifications? Surely, you spotted that it had been lowered when you went to view it? The remap - not sure how you'd expect the dealer to spot this - they've offered to have the car back to inspect it. If they offer to put it back to a default mapping, there's not a lot you can do really.
    Originally posted by rob7475
    As a consumer sale it doesn't need to say that it's unmodified because the seller is required to state anything about the car that's likely to be important to the buying decision. Modifications - especially ones such as remaps, de-catting and lowering which can create all sorts of insurance problems for the buyer - are undoubtedly important!

    Lowering isn't necessarily going to be obvious to a buyer, especially one who isn't particularly mechanically inclined and / or doesn't have intimate knowledge of the model. It's not up to the buyer to become expert in such things before purchase.

    The dealer, on the other hand, is expected to be expert in his stock and the fact that he "couldn't spot a remap" doesn't absolve him from the need to tell a buyer about it. Agree with it or not, that's just how it is in business (and rightly so imo as a business owner).
    • ess0two
    • By ess0two 20th Apr 17, 6:21 PM
    • 2,909 Posts
    • 3,804 Thanks
    ess0two
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 17, 6:21 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Apr 17, 6:21 PM
    As you've taken the map off now,how do you prove it was originally there causing the issue?
    This car should have gone back in-touched to the dealer.
    Official MR B fan club,dont go............................
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 20th Apr 17, 6:36 PM
    • 15,496 Posts
    • 13,823 Thanks
    AdrianC
    You are past the 30 days for a straightforward rejection. The dealer now has the right to repair the vehicle. Taking pre-sale modifications back to standard specification is not necessarily something he has any obligation to do, as they are not "faults".

    The dealer may not have known it was remapped or the DPF removed. It would have been obvious to any reasonably thorough visual inspection that it had been lowered.

    Now that you've had the car worked on elsewhere, it is straightforward for the dealer to claim that other issues have arisen because of that work, and are not his responsibility.
    • rob7475
    • By rob7475 21st Apr 17, 9:37 AM
    • 296 Posts
    • 182 Thanks
    rob7475
    Just read the OP's other post and not really sure why he/she has started two posts for the same issue.

    To summarise though, it's a 7 year old BMW MSport car that's been remapped and lowered. I'm not sure what you expect the supplying garage to do really. They won't remove the remap unless it's proven to be causing issues. They're also not going to replace the lowering springs for standard ones just because you didn't know the car was lowered. You really can't expect a 7 year old car to be factory original.

    Have you given the garage the opportunity to look at your issues. Going straight to the credit card company is just going to get their backs up.
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 21st Apr 17, 9:44 AM
    • 4,596 Posts
    • 4,010 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    If OP had his way, advertisements for cars would be difficult to write. Take my current hack:


    "2004 Honda Accord 2.2i-CTDi Tourer. 130Kmi, FSH, blue. Completely original and unmolested, excluding tyres, brake pads, brake discs, oil filter, oil, air filter, pollen filter, glowplugs, coolant, thermostat, timing chain, chain tensioners, crankshaft oil seal, camshaft sprocket, crankshaft sprocket, oil pump drive chain, sump gasket, injector seals, leak-off pipes, cam cover seals, various suspension arms, mats, tailgate gas struts, handbrake cable, battery, various bulbs, track-rod ends, OS outer CV boot, NSR wheel bearing..."


    etc.
    • Rain Shadow
    • By Rain Shadow 21st Apr 17, 11:05 AM
    • 1,672 Posts
    • 3,042 Thanks
    Rain Shadow
    I also found out when car was at BMW that car had non-standard suspension fitted ie. it had been lowered.

    Where do I stand on this?
    Originally posted by cogsy1976

    Verrrry slightly closer to the ground?
    You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friend's nose.
    • takman
    • By takman 21st Apr 17, 1:36 PM
    • 2,825 Posts
    • 2,360 Thanks
    takman
    Ok, this is a fairly long post so please bear with! but I bought a car from a trader 2 months or so ago, had issue pretty much straightaway with car bellowing out smoke every now and again.

    Long story short I took to BMW (off my own back to look at, purely because when car went back to have window switch fitted I was without the car for a week!) we found car had been remapped, I got them to unmap the car which has stopped the smoke issue.

    I am still getting faults come up on my code reader (which dont affect the car by the way) and I want to return the car. Trader wants to have the car back to inspect and repair. Now Im 99.9% certain that the DPF (diesel particulate filter) was probably removed when it was remapped but I cant prove this although the codes that are coming up on my reader point to this, and from an MOT point of view its just a visual inspection and as long as its there then its ok.

    However, I would never of bought the car if I had known it had been remapped, the car has done 96k and therefore the extra power on a high mileage car is not good for it at all (in the future) I also found out when car was at BMW that car had non-standard suspension fitted ie. it had been lowered.

    Where do I stand on this? I am currently going through the Capital One disputes team (I paid part of the deposit on my credit card)for the vehicle issues regarding the codes.

    Basically I want my money back and to give the car back, do I have a good case of getting this sorted with the fact that I was not advised by it being remapped and lowered? I have kept a copy of the advert as well which proves this.

    Thanks for any advice
    Originally posted by cogsy1976
    If you got BMW to restore the ECU software to standard then if the DFP has been removed it will show a fault code, what fault codes does the car have?. Or you could simply remove the DPF casing and look inside and you will soon see if it has been gutted or not.

    Also a remap done correctly will not damage the car in any way and certainly not on a car that has only done 96k miles. Yes it may put added stress on the engine but if done correctly it will still be within safety limits. Service history of the car and how it was driven will be more of a factor in the longevity of the engine than a remap.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 21st Apr 17, 3:03 PM
    • 3,179 Posts
    • 3,440 Thanks
    Johno100
    If you got BMW to restore the ECU software to standard then if the DFP has been removed it will show a fault code, what fault codes does the car have?. Or you could simply remove the DPF casing and look inside and you will soon see if it has been gutted or not.

    Also a remap done correctly will not damage the car in any way and certainly not on a car that has only done 96k miles. Yes it may put added stress on the engine but if done correctly it will still be within safety limits. Service history of the car and how it was driven will be more of a factor in the longevity of the engine than a remap.
    Originally posted by takman
    Those were my thoughts, the remap was just as likely done to eliminate the fault code(s) and potential engine management light showing caused by the gutting of the DPF as to improve performance. Anyway the standard map on most vehicles is extremely conservative, especially with vehicles being built for global markets with various quality fuels etc. around the world.

    As long as the vehicle passes the MOT smoke test I wouldn't be concerned and at least the OP will avoid costly future DPF faults if it hasn't got one.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 21st Apr 17, 5:41 PM
    • 1,610 Posts
    • 1,103 Thanks
    Tarambor
    Anyway the standard map on most vehicles is extremely conservative, especially with vehicles being built for global markets with various quality fuels etc. around the world.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    This. The 2L engine in my MK3 Mazda MX5 is actually a Ford unit. When in a Ford it produces 140BHP, in the MX5 it produces 158BHP.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 21st Apr 17, 7:39 PM
    • 730 Posts
    • 568 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    This. The 2L engine in my MK3 Mazda MX5 is actually a Ford unit. When in a Ford it produces 140BHP, in the MX5 it produces 158BHP.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    It was the same when the 250 bhp Volvo engine from the T5 was put into the ST Focus at 230 bhp.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,825Posts Today

7,744Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @TfLTravelAlerts: Oxford Circus and Bond Street stations now both reopened and all trains are stopping normally.

  • RT @metpoliceuk: We have not located any trace of suspects, evidence of shots fired or casualties. Officers still on scene. If you are in a?

  • My hopes and prayers are that this turns out to be nothing. Stay safe.

  • Follow Martin