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  • FIRST POST
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 20th Apr 17, 8:40 AM
    • 316Posts
    • 112Thanks
    luke123456
    Parking Eye in Hospital
    • #1
    • 20th Apr 17, 8:40 AM
    Parking Eye in Hospital 20th Apr 17 at 8:40 AM
    Hi

    I was driving a passenger with a disabled badge. We stopped in the parking bays 'Drop Off & Blue Badge' outside the Royal Free Hospital in London.

    I submitted my informal appeal stating that the vehicle had a disabled badge on display and asking PE to cancel it or I will appeal to PALS.

    I received a reply on Easter Monday! At 7am! Obviously it was a generic reply with the letter attached again very generalised and automated!

    Shall I appeal to POPLA on that basis and also right to PALS?

    Much appreciated!
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Apr 17, 9:28 AM
    • 14,463 Posts
    • 22,746 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:28 AM
    • #2
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:28 AM
    You need to be getting on to PALS immediately. Don't let this fester or they may say it's too late to help.

    In parallel, send the blue text initial appeal (from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky) to PE by the deadline shown on their NtK, get your POPLA code, then with a forum assisted appeal, this can be winnable at the POPLA stage.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 20th Apr 17, 9:25 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    • #3
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:25 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:25 PM
    Thanks Umkomaas

    My Appeal to PE was rejected, there is only one chance to appeal to PE right? Or should the next step be a formal appeal to PE Before the POPLA Stage?

    In any case they have not given me a POPLA code, from previous appeals I remember that they had to issue such a code?

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Apr 17, 9:40 PM
    • 49,909 Posts
    • 63,326 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:40 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:40 PM
    I received a reply on Easter Monday! At 7am! Obviously it was a generic reply with the letter attached again very generalised and automated!
    Does not sound like a rejection letter.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 20th Apr 17, 9:44 PM
    • 5,595 Posts
    • 7,029 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    • #5
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:44 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Apr 17, 9:44 PM
    You should be complaining to the hospital and your local paper.
    Show everyone what a bunch of artists the idiots you trusted your hospital to have got in to bed with.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • Ivor Pecheque
    • By Ivor Pecheque 20th Apr 17, 10:52 PM
    • 714 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    Ivor Pecheque
    • #6
    • 20th Apr 17, 10:52 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Apr 17, 10:52 PM
    If this how they commission parking management, how do they commission health services ?
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Apr 17, 11:12 PM
    • 14,463 Posts
    • 22,746 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 20th Apr 17, 11:12 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Apr 17, 11:12 PM
    Nice point to raise with the Trust. Due diligence has seemingly evaporated, how can anyone have trust (pardon the pun) in their procedures, given this debacle?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 24th Apr 17, 8:50 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    • #8
    • 24th Apr 17, 8:50 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Apr 17, 8:50 PM
    I have written to PALS and attached a copy of the blue badge

    I have received a reply from my first appeal to PE but I was not given a POPLA Code.

    Is this not the case any more?

    Please see below the reply received from PE to my first response to them
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 24th Apr 17, 8:53 PM
    • 14,463 Posts
    • 22,746 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 24th Apr 17, 8:53 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Apr 17, 8:53 PM
    Your POPLA verification code is in the second line - starts 60....... Now take the post down as they can identify you from it.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Apr 17, 9:10 PM
    • 49,909 Posts
    • 63,326 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    POPLA stage then, like all the others. Back to the NEWBIES thread, read post #3 this time, unless PALS cancel it within 3 weeks.

    Escalate the complaint FIRST before POPLA, as it is more likely to be cancelled if POPLA hasn't been used...your code lasts 30 days so there is loads of time to get this cancelled first. If PALS are useless, contact the consultant or Facilities Manager at the Hospital, or email the CEO of the NHS Trust by name and rant like everyone else does.

    It works; we had a Sunderland NHS Trust one cancelled in 24 hours today after a PALS rant by a victim I hope you didn't *write* snail mail; it is far more urgent than that and should be done by email for quick results.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 24-04-2017 at 9:15 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 24th Apr 17, 9:11 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    Ok thanks to you both

    I have written to PALS by email with proof of the blue badge.

    I will await their response as I have marked the email URGENT and if no reply within the next 2 or 3 weeks I will write to POPLA.
    Last edited by luke123456; 24-04-2017 at 10:03 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 24th Apr 17, 10:21 PM
    • 15,486 Posts
    • 19,570 Thanks
    Redx
    Ok thanks to you both

    I have written to PALS by email with proof of the blue badge.

    I will await their response as I have marked the email URGENT and if no reply within the next 2 or 3 weeks I will write to POPLA.
    Originally posted by luke123456
    no you wont write to POPLA

    you will however , write a popla appeal and then UPLOAD it to the POPLA website as a pdf attachment
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 24th Apr 17, 10:40 PM
    • 14,463 Posts
    • 22,746 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    no you wont write to POPLA

    you will however , write a popla appeal and then UPLOAD it to the POPLA website as a pdf attachment
    Originally posted by Redx
    And you need to be making a start now on researching this and preparing a draft POPLA appeal. Don't leave it until you hear back from PALS in 2-3 weeks, because if they can't help you, you'll be so close to the wire to submit an appeal - it will be panic stations!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 25th Apr 17, 10:26 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    PALS have replied today and said they forwarded my email and attachments to the car parking manager.

    The car parking manager then replied;

    I have been forwarded your email by our PALs department to respond to your complaint regarding a parking charge issued to your vehicle.

    The car parks at the Royal Free site are controlled and monitored by ANPR cameras (Automatic Number Plate Recognition). To prevent a parking charge from being generated, all vehicles must be registered to park on site. Blue badge holders need to do this via our main reception desk on the ground floor, opposite the main entrance doors to the hospital or security next to A&E. This is also notified to all blue badge holders via the parking signs (copy of one is attached for your reference). The onus is on the driver to read the parking signs on any site and to make themselves aware of the parking rules and regulations.

    I have also provided you with a copy of the Blue Badge Rights & Responsibilities booklet for your reference.

    Unfortunately, as the blue badge was not registered, there is no evidence to support whether the vehicle was parked correctly or that the blue badge was actually used by xxx, therefore there are no grounds to cancel on this occasion. I am satisfied that the parking charge was issued correctly and support ParkingEye’s decision to reject your appeal.

    Regards

    Dee Davis
    Car Parking Manager
    Facilities Management
    Royal Free London NHS Foundation Trust
    Royal Free Hospital
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 25th Apr 17, 10:35 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 25th Apr 17, 10:36 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    She sent me the above image and also the following attachment;

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/443225/blue-badge-rights-responsibilities.PDF
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Apr 17, 10:41 PM
    • 15,486 Posts
    • 19,570 Thanks
    Redx
    what was the "contravention" that PE issued on the NTK ?

    and WHY did the badge holder not register it as per the signage ?
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 25th Apr 17, 10:42 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    So my POPLA appeal should mention that this makes the disabled person have to go inside the building and out of it to register with reception/security if out of hours, whereas an able bodied person can just park with the machine nearby (located in the car park) or they can call and pay by phone. So this is against equality rights...

    Not sure what other points to mention

    Thanks
    • luke123456
    • By luke123456 25th Apr 17, 10:47 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    luke123456
    what was the "contravention" that PE issued on the NTK ?

    and WHY did the badge holder not register it as per the signage ?
    Originally posted by Redx
    I guess it was too late and dark at 11pm....but PE will say there is adequate lighting, and this was a bit odd so as the driver or disabled person we didn't know there was such a policy....

    Also, the PE NTK doesn't really state a contravention....
    It does state however...

    'By not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park longer than permitted, in accordance with the signage and T&C's set out, the Parking charge is now payable to PE Ltd (as the Creditor)'
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Apr 17, 10:49 PM
    • 15,486 Posts
    • 19,570 Thanks
    Redx
    So my POPLA appeal should mention that this makes the disabled person have to go inside the building and out of it to register with reception/security if out of hours, whereas an able bodied person can just park with the machine nearby (located in the car park) or they can call and pay by phone. So this is against equality rights...

    Not sure what other points to mention

    Thanks
    Originally posted by luke123456
    POPLA have never ruled on the EA2010 issues so although your popla appeal may mention the above it wont sway them at all

    a counter claim under the EA2010 is what applies to those comments , a separate issue, against both PE and the trust

    post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread explains the grounds for popla appeals with examples and a few templates

    they expect the apellant to write down legal arguments , such as

    POFA2012 ISSUES
    NO LOCUS STANDII (NO CONTRACT)
    POOR OR INADEQUATE SIGNAGE
    POOR LIGHTING
    BPA COP ISSUES
    NTK ISSUES

    any laws or precedents or statements that may apply (such as POFA , CRA2015 , HENRY GREENSLADE comments etc)

    and anything else , but I think they will ignore the comments you amde about the BB and the EA2010

    ps:- what PE are saying is that the BB holder has not "purchased" the free 4 hours stay by registering the BB and or VRM at reception on the terminal or however it is done (not complied with that signage above) - or they stayed longer than 4 hours , or both

    and the trust are saying that when you read the BB booklet it does say its not valid on private land and other rules may apply (and often different rules do apply - so not the same as on public roads etc)

    pps:- they are not saying that the disabled person has to register the BB, they are saying it has to be registered , so ANYBODY can do it, including "carers" or the driver or anyone who wishes to do the task ON BEHALF OF the BB holder

    if the BB holder had been solo that day then I agree with your interpretation , as it has happened to me (not at this hospital though) , but as they were accompanied presumably by an able bodied person or carer then that person could and should have done it

    and my word "contravention" was enclosed in parethesis because it was a word chosen to encompass any excuse for a rule that they consider was broken because this is a civil matter

    and I would write back to DEE DAVIS with a copy of the NHS guidelines and ask why they are not being followed 2.5 years after they were introduced by JEREMY HUNT and tell her that they may be included in a counter claim under the EA2010 for violating the rights of a disabled person (in the manner you described above)
    Last edited by Redx; 25-04-2017 at 11:02 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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